Swiss Nightly Build

Discuss one of the most feature filled GameCube applications here :)
GreyRogue
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Re: Swiss Nightly Build

Post by GreyRogue » Thu Jan 01, 2015 4:29 pm

If you want something quick and ugly to dump the IPL to SD through the SD-Gecko, the patch I attached to Issue 121 should work.
https://code.google.com/p/swiss-gc/issues/detail?id=121
Sugurain
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Re: Swiss Nightly Build

Post by Sugurain » Thu Jan 01, 2015 7:16 pm

theclaw wrote:Now I'm plain confused. I thought Gamecube color encoding was entirely hardware controlled (think Sega Genesis etc).
Thus no need for software to distinguish between NTSC and PAL-M.

In any case I've never heard of a Nintendo licensed commercial PAL-M game. So it may only be relevant to homebrew like Swiss.

From the looks of it, your console is outputting PAL-M at 50hz 576i. That would explain color returning with the TV set to PAL-M, but cut off.
Yep, I changed swiss config file on my PC again, this time changing the "Swiss video mode" to 480i, and it worked! Now the bottom of the screen is showing up fine! :D

My TV now detects the signal as NTSC, just like it does when you play games.
(You can see from the pictures I took that the bottom of the screen is showing up fine)

Also, set the "default device" to the SD card, and now Swiss is not trying to mount the DVD drive on start up anymore.
And now it's finally saving the configuration changes to the SD card from the Swiss screen itself. Sweet! :twisted:



I'd love to dump the bios of this Gamecube to you guys, just tell me how to do it and I will. xD
Brazilian consoles are VERY peculiar in a lot of ways. Try to read about Sega and a brazilian company named "TecToy", it will blow your minds. xD

I've been doing this kind of favor for quite a while now, I've done that on the Nintendo 64 Forever forums, when they asked me to take my console appart so they could take a good look at the insides. hahaha
I took like 50 pictures of the motherboard, labels, box, brazilian game cartridges, etc.

Nintendo consoles were made by a company named "Gradiente" back then (often under the name of "Playtronic"), so some changes were made to the consoles, as you can see. The most obvious is the change from NTSC to PAL-M video output, but if often goes beyond that.
For example:
The brazilian Nintendo 64 is fully capable of playing NTSC games, but it won't play the game "Hey You Pikachu!", because they thought that a game that could only be played by voice commands in a foreign language would be weird/wrong, and simply programmed the brazilian N64 to ignore those cartridges! :roll:

I dunno the extension of the changes made to the Gamecube though.
The only thing I know, is that Gradiente was bankrupt before the end the GameCube life cycle, so I don't really know if Gradiente even produced a GC without the Digital Display Port.
I belive the later consoles sold here were just imported from the US. I'm not 100% sure, though.

In any case I've never heard of a Nintendo licensed commercial PAL-M game.
Such thing does not exist.
The games they sold here were NTSC (US) games. You can play "brazilian" games on Dolphin, it reads them as NTSC games.
Also, If you play your NTSC US games on a brazilian console, it will read them fine.

Same goes to ALL Nintendo games and consoles made here. From the NES to the GC.
(As I said, Gradiente was bankrupt before the Wii was released, it was never produced here.)
theclaw
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Re: Swiss Nightly Build

Post by theclaw » Thu Jan 01, 2015 9:12 pm

Does that mean the brazilian GC has PAL-M system menus, then switches the color output format to NTSC upon starting a game?
Sugurain
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Re: Swiss Nightly Build

Post by Sugurain » Thu Jan 01, 2015 10:27 pm

Exactly. (Well, unless XenoGC has something to do with this. But I think that's unlikely. xD)

I dunno why they kept the menu in English though. If it's indeed using a different bios, they should have translated the whole thing...
GreyRogue wrote:If you want something quick and ugly to dump the IPL to SD through the SD-Gecko, the patch I attached to Issue 121 should work.
https://code.google.com/p/swiss-gc/issues/detail?id=121
How can I run this patch?

Copy it to the SD and run it with Swiss, maybe?
Last edited by Sugurain on Fri Jan 02, 2015 12:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
theclaw
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Re: Swiss Nightly Build

Post by theclaw » Thu Jan 01, 2015 11:53 pm

Hmm. I suppose Nintendo could've changed the video encoder to support a command that switches it between NTSC or PAL-M, then never shipped games that use said PAL-M command.

But that seems like overkill compared to the easy route of simply always using PAL-M.
Sugurain
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Re: Swiss Nightly Build

Post by Sugurain » Fri Jan 02, 2015 12:05 am

theclaw wrote:Hmm. I suppose Nintendo could've changed the video encoder to support a command that switches it between NTSC or PAL-M, then never shipped games that use said PAL-M command.

But that seems like overkill compared to the easy route of simply always using PAL-M.
That's why I think XenoGC might be doing something.

Is the modchip capable of changing the video output of a GC?
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emu_kidid
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Re: Swiss Nightly Build

Post by emu_kidid » Fri Jan 02, 2015 12:19 am

The IPL would be running in either NTSC or true PAL-M, but games would be just NTSC 480i as they were coded. With the XenoGC, depending on how it detects video mode, it might be changing it (incorrectly) to PAL or something if you are having issues.

There are button combinations to hold as the game boots (from the GC IPL until the first screen of the game) to force video mode.
Image
BenoitRen
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Re: Swiss Nightly Build

Post by BenoitRen » Fri Jan 02, 2015 12:29 am

Sugurain wrote:I just said it was trying to mount it's own disc.
I don't think Swiss is aware of how it has booted, so the DVD in the drive could be anything.
q8v08 wrote:Man do I wish the Wii & GC had a real VGA cable like the Dreamcast & PS2.
The PS2's official VGA cable is super rare and the console doesn't output standard (RGBHV) VGA. Instead it outputs Sync on Green (RGsB) component video. The good news is that you can take a PS2 component cable and attach a VGA plug to its output to get the same kind of cable. The bad news is that very few displays support Sync on Green (most that do are, unsurprisingly, Sony displays).

But let's say that you've managed to acquire this setup. You'll realise that getting VGA output requires the software to output at least a 480p signal. And this is where the cookie crumbles: relatively few PS2 games have 480p support (in PAL land they're a rare exception), and forcing it with a homebrew tool is an exercise in futility more often than not. This is because due to the PS2's low amount of VRAM (and lack of hardware texture compression), games used tricks to conserve memory, most of them making use of the fact that with an interlaced signal, only half of the image needs to be in the output buffer.
Hardware: Wii (PAL)
Hardware configuration: System Menu 4.1E, Priiloader
Swiss boot method: Modified Wii Swiss Booter provided by Extrems
Software medium: Retail discs
Sugurain
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Re: Swiss Nightly Build

Post by Sugurain » Fri Jan 02, 2015 12:41 am

The IPL would be running in either NTSC or true PAL-M, but games would be just NTSC 480i as they were coded. With the XenoGC, depending on how it detects video mode, it might be changing it (incorrectly) to PAL or something if you are having issues.

There are button combinations to hold as the game boots (from the GC IPL until the first screen of the game) to force video mode.
I'm not having problems anymore.

The boot animation of my GC is being detected by my TV as a PAL-M signal, from there on, it's all NTSC. (swiss, booting games from SD or DVD, emulators, etc.)
I left my TV on the "Auto" option, so it switches between whatever my GC is throwing at it. hahah

What I meant, is that maybe the XenoGC if forcing my Gamecube to output NTSC.
I know for sure that the brazilian console is able to read US games, so it probably run US games and by default the console would only display them in PAL-M.
Now, with Xeno in the way, the console must be ignoring this step, and is now displaying everything in NTSC.



Anyways...
I'm really surprised with this Swiss thing, I'd never imagine the homebrew scene on the Gamecube was so well developed, I'm really amazed. Congratulations to everyone involved in this project! ;)

I can't guarantee, but I'll try to find a brazilian console without the Digital Port, and try to dump the IPL from both. I wanna help with this project. xD
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emu_kidid
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Re: Swiss Nightly Build

Post by emu_kidid » Fri Jan 02, 2015 2:38 am

Thanks, that'd be great if you could try to find one without the digi port - might not even exist though.

I'm 99% sure that the IPL wouldn't be patching NTSC games to PAL-M on a DOL-002, the Xeno is probably acheiving nothing in terms of video mode forcing.
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Sugurain
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Re: Swiss Nightly Build

Post by Sugurain » Fri Jan 02, 2015 2:42 am

Came across this info while searching for a way to dump the IPL:

http://www.maxconsole.com/maxcon_forums ... -Revisions

This guy seems to have seen a different version of the brazilian console...


EDIT

Well, it seems my console is the so called "very special" version with "Portuguese menus and co-produced by Nintendo and Gradiente".

In my unit, all the menus are in Portuguese. (yep, only noticed now lol, this is the first time in years since I've used this console)

Here are some pics of the menu:
Image

Image

Image

Image

Image


Now to show proof that it actually changes the video mode by itself, here are some pics of it with the TV's color system selection menu:

PAL-M:
Image

NTSC:
Image



Now let's play a NTSC copy of Smash Bros:

PAL-M:
Image

NTSC:
Image



*Bonus:
Here's the power brick of this unit:
Image
It's about twice the size of the american one.

The reason:
Image
It's actually a 110-220V auto-switching power supply.
Brazil has both 110V and 220V voltages as standards depending on the region you are, so it's common to see this kind of multi voltage PSU.
In fact, the Nintendo 64 PSU is bigger here too, and for this exact same reason: It's 110-220V auto-switching too. =P
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badsector
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Re: Swiss Nightly Build

Post by badsector » Fri Jan 02, 2015 4:55 am

Your links are not working :/
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megalomaniac
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Re: Swiss Nightly Build

Post by megalomaniac » Fri Jan 02, 2015 5:08 am

badsector wrote:Your links are not working :/
what do you mean links not working??
you have to click on the links...did you try clicking them??

:lol:
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>>> BadAssConsoles.com <<<

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badsector
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Re: Swiss Nightly Build

Post by badsector » Fri Jan 02, 2015 5:22 am

He just corrected them. See the "EDIT" on top of them.
theclaw
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Re: Swiss Nightly Build

Post by theclaw » Fri Jan 02, 2015 6:58 am

emu_kidid wrote:The IPL would be running in either NTSC or true PAL-M, but games would be just NTSC 480i as they were coded. With the XenoGC, depending on how it detects video mode, it might be changing it (incorrectly) to PAL or something if you are having issues.

There are button combinations to hold as the game boots (from the GC IPL until the first screen of the game) to force video mode.
So both Sugurain and I are right, and Nintendo did in fact change the Brazilian GC to allow software control of its color format?

If not, and the NTSC GC has a yet-undiscovered way to enable standard PAL (or less usefully PAL-M), it'd be a breakthrough development for HDTV owners who want to play PAL games without a component cable, hardware modding, or importing a console.
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megalomaniac
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Re: Swiss Nightly Build

Post by megalomaniac » Fri Jan 02, 2015 7:06 am

It would most likely be due to the ability of the AVE which allows the IPL to control its output..
Also keep in mind, all video output from the AVE switches off when progressive mode is enabled...
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theclaw
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Re: Swiss Nightly Build

Post by theclaw » Fri Jan 02, 2015 8:33 am

megalomaniac wrote:It would most likely be due to the ability of the AVE which allows the IPL to control its output..
Also keep in mind, all video output from the AVE switches off when progressive mode is enabled...
Right. If my harebrained theory is true, we're talking about a new ability unique to the DOL-002.
The only GameCube able to have games change its color between NTSC and PAL.
Sugurain
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Re: Swiss Nightly Build

Post by Sugurain » Fri Jan 02, 2015 11:20 am

Well, if my GC is capable of switching video mode like this (and from your reactions it seems something really usefull), should I try to run a PAL game on it?

I know it will work, because it's chipped with XenoGC, but even I have no idea if it will change the output video to PAL too. I'm curious now. xD

Well, it's not a big deal, as I don't have to burn DVDs anymore thanks to Swiss. ;)
So both Sugurain and I are right, and Nintendo did in fact change the Brazilian GC to allow software control of its color format?
Gradiente was most likely the one behind this ability. It was a HUGE electronics producer, so it had technology, resources and everything else to change these consoles at will.

Unlike Tectoy (wich produced the Sega consoles here back then), Gradiente made the Nintendo consoles with the same quality you find on the imported ones. It doesn't feel cheap to the touch, like my Tectoy's Megadrive (Genesis) does.

Gradiente produced anything from stereos, hometheaters, to televisions, and even computers (back in the MSX era). Quality-wise, Gradiente products were as good, if not better, than Sony/Panasonic products back then. And that's really something, as these japanese companies made really good stuff back then.

After 2004, the quality of their products dropped a lot, while the price was still the same. With bad sales, it's no surprise it went bankrupt a few years later.
Gradiente is still alive to today, but it's very very weak. It's currently producing cheap tablets and smartphones, nothing really good.
I hope one day they recover and come back as strong as they were in the 70-90s.

According to Wikipedia, they produced the Gamecube until 2003. So after that, the market most likely just bought imported consoles to sell. By that time, most TVs here had at least NTSC/PAL-M color system option, so that didn't affect sales at all.
theclaw
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Re: Swiss Nightly Build

Post by theclaw » Fri Jan 02, 2015 12:10 pm

Judging by the pictures, 50hz mode in PAL games will behave the same way Swiss currently is. PAL-M color. Not European PAL.

Expect 60hz mode indistinguishable from NTSC games.
Sugurain
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Re: Swiss Nightly Build

Post by Sugurain » Fri Jan 02, 2015 1:18 pm

Tested Luigi's mansion on it, PAL version.

My TV couldn't auto detect what video format it is. It's behaving like Swiss in the beggining (before I changed video mode to 480i).

The "Auto" option in my TV gives me a blinking a black and white picture.

PAL-N gives me a full, clean, black and white picture.

NTSC gives me a clean black and white picture with the bottom missing.

And PAL-M gives me color picture, but with the bottom of the image missing.



Then, I reseted the console and ran Luigi's Mansion again, this time forcing video mode to 480i in Swiss.
My TV auto detected the output video as NTSC.
The image has color, is clean, and the bottom of the image is there.

I belive it was indeed trying to make a pure PAL image on the first try. Otherwise my TV would detect the signal as NTSC ou PAL-M.
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Re: Swiss Nightly Build

Post by theclaw » Fri Jan 02, 2015 2:24 pm

A pure PAL image would be essentially the same as a European GC, and auto detected by the TV.

PAL-M is intended only for 60hz. Not detected at 50hz is logical.
Sugurain
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Re: Swiss Nightly Build

Post by Sugurain » Fri Jan 02, 2015 4:01 pm

theclaw wrote:A pure PAL image would be essentially the same as a European GC, and auto detected by the TV.

PAL-M is intended only for 60hz. Not detected at 50hz is logical.
But my TV cannot detect european PAL.

It can only detect PAL-N (signal used in Uruguai and Argentina), besides PAL-M and NTSC. So there's no real way to tell if it's pure PAL or not.
theclaw
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Re: Swiss Nightly Build

Post by theclaw » Fri Jan 02, 2015 5:02 pm

Hmm hard to say without a test device. Auto may or may not work for european PAL.

Remember the TV can't change what the GC outputs. If telling the TV to look for PAL-M works, you're most likely getting PAL-M color when the GC is using 50hz.
q8v08
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Re: Swiss Nightly Build

Post by q8v08 » Fri Jan 02, 2015 6:51 pm

BenoitRen wrote:
Sugurain wrote:I just said it was trying to mount it's own disc.
I don't think Swiss is aware of how it has booted, so the DVD in the drive could be anything.
q8v08 wrote:Man do I wish the Wii & GC had a real VGA cable like the Dreamcast & PS2.
The PS2's official VGA cable is super rare and the console doesn't output standard (RGBHV) VGA. Instead it outputs Sync on Green (RGsB) component video. The good news is that you can take a PS2 component cable and attach a VGA plug to its output to get the same kind of cable. The bad news is that very few displays support Sync on Green (most that do are, unsurprisingly, Sony displays).

But let's say that you've managed to acquire this setup. You'll realise that getting VGA output requires the software to output at least a 480p signal. And this is where the cookie crumbles: relatively few PS2 games have 480p support (in PAL land they're a rare exception), and forcing it with a homebrew tool is an exercise in futility more often than not. This is because due to the PS2's low amount of VRAM (and lack of hardware texture compression), games used tricks to conserve memory, most of them making use of the fact that with an interlaced signal, only half of the image needs to be in the output buffer.
Someone over at psx-scence.com created a piece of software called GSM that let's you set various resolutions all the way up 1080i on the PS2 also includes pcsx2 widescreen fixes is that the homebrew you mean?

genplus-gx is the only Wii software I can get to output 576p, I haven't fully tested swiss yet and not64 is outputting 576i instead of 576p when manually set to videomode 4.

I have question about swiss, does it perform a reset / reinitialize to the gamecube pad & memory card ports before startup? in the log of nintendon-t it says "Got Shutdown button call" command, can this be disabled since i'm running it on Wii with USB / Front SD, with dios mios lite.
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Extrems
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Re: Swiss Nightly Build

Post by Extrems » Fri Jan 02, 2015 7:23 pm

q8v08 wrote:genplus-gx is the only Wii software I can get to output 576p, I haven't fully tested swiss yet and not64 is outputting 576i instead of 576p when manually set to videomode 4.
The mapping in Not64 recently changed to:
0: Auto - 1: 480i60 - 2: 240p60 - 3: 480p60 - 4: 576i50 - 5: 288p50 - 6: 576p50
...which is the same as Swiss internally.

For other homebrew, you need normally unattainable system settings.
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