576p games run full speed?

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andykara2003
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576p games run full speed?

Post by andykara2003 » Mon Oct 14, 2019 10:06 pm

Apologies for the rather inane question;

I’m looking at the possibility of getting Swiss for forcing 576p for PAL games on my US Gamecube. Am I right that when doing so, the games will run slower as they’d be in 50hz?
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Papy.G
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Re: 576p games run full speed?

Post by Papy.G » Mon Oct 14, 2019 10:35 pm

No, Pal games are suppposed to be corrected to run at full speed under 50fps. In fact, some games aren't affected at all by the framerate, and can run even at 30fps without problems (480sf), but some, like f-Zero are slow.
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andykara2003
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Re: 576p games run full speed?

Post by andykara2003 » Tue Oct 15, 2019 6:19 am

Great, thanks very much for the reply. Can I run the game in 576p directly from the game disc or would I need to run it from a usb device or sd card?


Also is there a way of running Wii games at 576p as well?
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Re: 576p games run full speed?

Post by Papy.G » Tue Oct 15, 2019 3:45 pm

You can force 576p through SWISS either way, but don't forget to set to 50Hz mode in game too.

This has been discussed elsewhere too, but if your TV doesn't output 50Hz (typically LCDs, even pal ones), it may not be comfortable to play.

For Wii games, there must be some way if your Wii is homebrew enabled. Mine isn't, so I don't know much about it, but I'm curious to hear about it.
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Re: 576p games run full speed?

Post by andykara2003 » Tue Oct 15, 2019 4:21 pm

Thanks - I’m really curious about Wii games as well - hopefully someone’ll let us know.

It turned out that Metroid prime is the only game in my list that I’ll see gains. Actually that’s fine as that’s one of my all time favourites so it’ll be worth getting an action replay for Swiss just for that.

I don’t suppose anyone knows if MP runs at the same in-game speed as the stock 60hz version when running at 576p at 50Hz?
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Re: 576p games run full speed?

Post by Papy.G » Tue Oct 15, 2019 4:47 pm

Don't buy an AR if it is just to run SWISS. If you have a GC compatible Wii, you don't need it to be homebrew enabled to set up a gamesave exploit to a memcard to use SWISS (Agent Under Fire is cheap, if you don't have any of the "hackable" games).

In the way they work, 3D games shouldn't suffer from slower framerate as much as 2D games with "pre-calculated " sprites did back in the days. Unfortunately due to habits in programming, or for specific needs, some games are still synchronised to VSync, those ones may suffer.
Pal games are checked/modded to support, and normally not be slower in 50Hz, although, you may check playing in 60Hz with your Pal version, assuming this mode reverts to the same Sync scenario as in the NTSC version.

And if the Video seems laggy to the point you end up sick in ten minutes of gameplay, don't blame it on the game, but your LCD TV.
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andykara2003
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Re: 576p games run full speed?

Post by andykara2003 » Tue Oct 15, 2019 8:40 pm

Papy.G wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 4:47 pm
Don't buy an AR if it is just to run SWISS. If you have a GC compatible Wii, you don't need it to be homebrew enabled to set up a gamesave exploit to a memcard to use SWISS (Agent Under Fire is cheap, if you don't have any of the "hackable" games).

Thanks, this is great to know - I don't suppose you know of a guide to do this? I've already bought an AR, but I'd be keen to get this option if it means a quicker route into the game..

Papy.G wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 4:47 pm
In the way they work, 3D games shouldn't suffer from slower framerate as much as 2D games

Nice one - I don't suppose you'd know if there are any Wii games that run in 576p?
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Re: 576p games run full speed?

Post by Papy.G » Wed Oct 16, 2019 1:11 pm

Well, if you've bought an AR, you'll then be able to set the game exploit with it, and then put it aside. You have to launch GCMM via the letterbomb hack. There are tutorials for Hackmii install for this first part, then, you'll have to follow those for the game exploit set up to go on when GCMM is launched.

The Wii settings only offers 576i, 480i, and 480p (if you have the Component cable), so I don't think it is officially supported by any game, but if there's a hack to force progressive mode on PAL games, it should just work.
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Re: 576p games run full speed?

Post by andykara2003 » Thu Oct 17, 2019 2:11 pm

Thanks, really appreciate your help. I've got the GC AR copnig so I'll give it a try on the GC first, just to get an idea.

Apparently, 576p only gives an improvement if the internal resolution of the game is over 640x480. Here's the list of games I'm interested in trying this with, with their internal resolutions:

F-zero GX: 640x488
Mario Sunshine: 640x448
Pikmin 1: 640x480
Pikmin 2: 640x448
Super monkey ball: 640x448
Star wars Rogue leader: 640x450
Mario golf: 640x448
Mario power tennis: 640x488
Mario kart DD: 608x488
Metroid prime: 640x528
1080 Avalanche: ?
Super monkey ball 1+2: ?


So a I right in saying that out of all these games, Metroid prime is the only one that'll benefit from 576p forcing? And even then, the resolution will top out at 528p?
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Re: 576p games run full speed?

Post by Ikewise » Fri Oct 18, 2019 12:14 pm

Papy.G wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 10:35 pm
No, Pal games are suppposed to be corrected to run at full speed under 50fps. In fact, some games aren't affected at all by the framerate, and can run even at 30fps without problems (480sf), but some, like f-Zero are slow.
Really or is that something SWISS improves?
All GC games I ever played on 50hz felt much slower compared to 60hz, especially the flagship Nintendo games like Mario Sunshine, Zelda, Paper Mario 2, Mario Kart.

I do know devs sped up games in 50hz mode at the time but I've only ever seen it on ps2.
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Re: 576p games run full speed?

Post by Papy.G » Fri Oct 18, 2019 1:18 pm

Andykara2003> Don't know where you got your information about internal resolution, and am curious about it. There are many sources of information about Video Signals that may be confusing. I thought internal resolution was different when you play in 50 VS 60Hz, so can't say much about it untill I learn more.

Ikewise> No, F-zero is frame-synchronized, my tests (at least with the US NTSC version) shows that if you drop the framerate to 30 per second, it will run at half the normal speed. I have only played at 60Hz (i or p) recently as much as possible, since my TV output is fixed to 60Hz, so all the games you are reffering to are some of those which will make me sick playing at 50Hz.
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andykara2003
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Re: 576p games run full speed?

Post by andykara2003 » Fri Oct 18, 2019 1:53 pm

I got it from Extrems who's the developer of Swiss and lots of other projects. I didn't want to bother him further so I came here. I'm also curious as to whether the games run slower - I think a lot of the first party games in my list are locked frame rate and therefore baked into the game. In this case, making the run faster would require a fundamental reworking of the game's code.

Not 100% sure tho, so it would be interesting to hear people's opinions. I'm guessing there must be people on the forum who know this stuff inside out..
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