Cloning the GameCube component cable

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Unseen
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Re: Cloning the GameCube component cable

Post by Unseen » Sun Jun 21, 2015 7:52 pm

Voltz wrote:Also, Unseen would be possible to create our own PCB without having to buy one from OshPark?
Sure, the layout and Gerber files created from it are available in the repository. It's currently a four-layer board though, which may be a problem if you want to make it yourself.
It also seems like it would be possible to print out the design you created for a laser printer, is it printable?
In theory it should be, I never tried to etch/mill my own boards - the prices for manufacturing prototype boards are so low these days and the end result is so much better that I don't see a need to go the DIY route myself.
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Re: Cloning the GameCube component cable

Post by Voltz » Mon Jun 22, 2015 8:16 pm

Oh ok thank you.
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Re: Cloning the GameCube component cable

Post by Bakuku » Sun Jul 05, 2015 4:22 pm

Voltz wrote:@Bentomo, you should checl out the GC Sticky and click on Rev C component cable, if you click on it you'll see the pinout of
the NTSC AVE-DOL chip which Blargman found the pinout for.

I can't find that post. Been looking for it a long time.
Could somebody link it please?
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Re: Cloning the GameCube component cable

Post by Voltz » Sun Jul 05, 2015 8:36 pm

Oh sorry forgot to mention its on another forum
Link:http://forums.modretro.com/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=13251
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Re: Cloning the GameCube component cable

Post by Mooper » Mon Jul 13, 2015 2:14 am

I've discovered that the gcvideo lite won't work if the gc's gpu is being powered by 1.69V. Well it will, but with a lot of artifacts. After bumping the voltage up to 1.76V the problem went away.
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Re: Cloning the GameCube component cable

Post by Streetwalker » Mon Jul 13, 2015 12:27 pm

Isn't the GPU normally powered by 1.8-1.9V with the stock reg board ?
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Re: Cloning the GameCube component cable

Post by Mooper » Mon Jul 13, 2015 7:01 pm

Yeah, It's only a concern if you're using custom regs.
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Re: Cloning the GameCube component cable

Post by Voltz » Tue Jul 14, 2015 6:19 pm

@Mooper, that's an amazing piece of information you've found
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Re: Cloning the GameCube component cable

Post by andre104623 » Thu Jul 16, 2015 12:13 am

@ Unseen I tested the GCvideo-DVI as you know. The fact that I can't use it on a TV is caused by the Pluto 2x HDMI board itself not in coding that I thought it was. Shuriken video does work on all TV's I have used and its also based on your DVI code. Do you think you could put in your Github about the Pluto 2x HDMI not working on USA/JAP on TV's only computer monitors. This is very important info for someone looking to do the project and then finding out that it won't work on there TV.

If the shuriken video had the XC3S200A instead of the XC3S50A it would be perfect. I really liked the OSD with ability to use scanlines
Last edited by andre104623 on Thu Jul 16, 2015 1:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Cloning the GameCube component cable

Post by megalomaniac » Thu Jul 16, 2015 12:46 am

andre104623 wrote:The fact that I can't use it on a TV is caused by the Pluto 2x HDMI board itself not in coding that mega thought it was since he now has my Pluto board.
I thought what ????
you must be high!!
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Re: Cloning the GameCube component cable

Post by andre104623 » Thu Jul 16, 2015 1:56 am

megalomaniac wrote:
andre104623 wrote:The fact that I can't use it on a TV is caused by the Pluto 2x HDMI board itself not in coding that mega thought it was since he now has my Pluto board.
I thought what ????
you must be high!!
Yes your right I thought it was an error sorry about that and I don't get high.

There I fixed it
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Re: Cloning the GameCube component cable

Post by Unseen » Thu Jul 16, 2015 7:19 am

andre104623 wrote:@ Unseen I tested the GCvideo-DVI as you know. The fact that I can't use it on a TV is caused by the Pluto 2x HDMI board itself not in coding that I thought it was. Shuriken video does work on all TV's I have used and its also based on your DVI code.
Interesting observation, looks like I'll have to make some measurements of the HDMI signals.
Do you think you could put in your Github about the Pluto 2x HDMI not working on USA/JAP on TV's only computer monitors. This is very important info for someone looking to do the project and then finding out that it won't work on there TV.
I think a single data point is not enough to make such a big statement, but I'll add a note about known compatibility issues.
If the shuriken video had the XC3S200A instead of the XC3S50A it would be perfect. I really liked the OSD with ability to use scanlines
Just replace the chip, they're almost pin compatible with each other and on the Shuriken Video board the differences do not matter.
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Re: Cloning the GameCube component cable

Post by meneerbeer » Thu Jul 16, 2015 8:17 am

I do not see why it would not work well for USA and JAP, but work for PAL.
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Re: Cloning the GameCube component cable

Post by happy_bunny » Thu Jul 16, 2015 9:06 am

so for HDMI you have 4 pairs of TMDS, on that pluto 2x board they have swapped the + and - of the TMDS on half the lines going into the HDMI connector. I think is works ok on some TV's but other TV's really dont like this, if you want to create / design compatibility issues that's the way to do it. On my board I have swapped all the TMDS lines (its still not a great idea to do that but helps with pcb layout) and I think as they are all swapped the TV dont see a difference in TMDS signals and is happy displaying the image.

I dont think its a US / PAl thing I think its a TV compatibility thing some TV dont care about the swapping of TMDS + / - others dont like it.

its good to get high once in a while :-)
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Re: Cloning the GameCube component cable

Post by meneerbeer » Thu Jul 16, 2015 9:49 am

If you swap the tmds lines, you can just invert the signal to get the same thing. That is what the GCVideo code for the p2x is doing. And it only does it for green and blue, so that seems good:

Inst_DVI: dvid GENERIC MAP (
Invert_Green => true,
Invert_Blue => true
)

I think in your case you need to invert all signals. Not sure if that is what you are already doing.

Edit: Looked at your code, it inverts all signals:
Inst_DVI: dvid GENERIC MAP (
Invert_Red => true,
Invert_Green => true,
Invert_Blue => true,
Invert_Clock => true
)

In that case I do not think the swapping of the tmds signals is the issue.
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Re: Cloning the GameCube component cable

Post by happy_bunny » Thu Jul 16, 2015 10:08 am

yes that is what I am doing and as far as I can see that's the only difference between my board and the p2x so I guess that's the problem, its a really weird thing to do only swap half the lines !!!

Maybe its just that I got lucky with the layout and its just a better board :-)
Last edited by happy_bunny on Thu Jul 16, 2015 12:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Cloning the GameCube component cable

Post by meneerbeer » Thu Jul 16, 2015 10:12 am

Are all the other signals done the same for HDMI? I know some TVs expect the +5V to be connected. Unseen does mention that you need to connect that for the p2x, so I assume people having trouble already did that.

Are the ddc_sda and ddc_sdl pulled up to +5V?

I think hot plug detect can be left floating.
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Re: Cloning the GameCube component cable

Post by Unseen » Thu Jul 16, 2015 10:18 am

meneerbeer wrote:Are the ddc_sda and ddc_sdl pulled up to +5V?
The Pluto doesn't have pullups for those two signals and since they're connected directly to (non-5V-tolerant) FPGA pins I configured them in a way that enables the clamping diode. One of the many small details that I've started to dislike about the Pluto IIx...
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Re: Cloning the GameCube component cable

Post by andre104623 » Thu Jul 16, 2015 2:10 pm

I think a single data point is not enough to make such a big statement, but I'll add a note about known compatibility issues.
Well when the pluto is $70 dollars shipped I think its worth noting about. The shuriken video cost about $22 each in total parts and PCB so that is a huge price gap there.It's very strange it works fine with PAL TV's it seems I mean I'm not talking out my ass here I must of tried at least 10 TV's ranging from 7 years old to just bought this year just nothing no picture.
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Re: Cloning the GameCube component cable

Post by Unseen » Thu Jul 16, 2015 2:29 pm

andre104623 wrote:I mean I'm not talking out my ass here I must of tried at least 10 TV's ranging from 7 years old to just bought this year just nothing no picture.
Yes, I don't doubt that it doesn't work for you on any of your TVs. It's just not an indication that it is a "PAL vs. NTSC" issue though, there are other factors that could influence the result. For example there could be timing differences in the signal generated by the two (slightly different) FPGA designs or something on your particular Pluto board is just far enough out of spec/damaged/missoldered/whatever that your TVs reject the signal.
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Re: Cloning the GameCube component cable

Post by meneerbeer » Thu Jul 16, 2015 2:38 pm

I also do not understand what you mean with PAL TV. A PAL TV should still display 480p fine. Most likely an NTSC television will still display 576p fine. I do not think there is a big difference between PAL and NTSC anymore when it comes to HD TVs. I guess NTSC TVs are more likely to not accept 576p.

What exactly did you try? A PAL GameCube with p2x? Which setup worked, which did not?
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Re: Cloning the GameCube component cable

Post by andre104623 » Thu Jul 16, 2015 3:08 pm

meneerbeer wrote:I also do not understand what you mean with PAL TV. A PAL TV should still display 480p fine. Most likely an NTSC television will still display 576p fine. I do not think there is a big difference between PAL and NTSC anymore when it comes to HD TVs. I guess NTSC TVs are more likely to not accept 576p.

What exactly did you try? A PAL GameCube with p2x? Which setup worked, which did not?
No it just seems that no one in PAL region is having the issue that I was having is all. @ Unseen No the wires are fine so was the flash even if one wire was crossed it wouldn't work. Maybe PAL has differences in timing I really don't know but one thing is for sure the compatibility sucks ass with pluto in my case. All problems seem to be fixed with shuriken video but some displays don't like the 480i over HDMI. I'm not trying to give anyone a hard time I just thought it should be noted is all. I very much appreciate everyone's time and effort they put in to the clone component device's so thank you Unseen, Happy_bunny, meneerbeer, Mega.

I do think the pluto is very over priced and they wouldn't take back the other Pluto I have because its flashed. So maybe one day I will find a use for it
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Re: Cloning the GameCube component cable

Post by Streetwalker » Thu Jul 16, 2015 3:20 pm

PAL only makes sense for composite and probably RF, as soon as you go S-video or better there's no difference.
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Re: Cloning the GameCube component cable

Post by andre104623 » Thu Jul 16, 2015 3:24 pm

Streetwalker wrote:PAL only makes sense for composite and probably RF, as soon as you go S-video or better there's no difference.
Yeah I really have no idea. My main TV won't display 576P/I the picture gets all messed up also 240p it doesn't like as well but other TV's are fine.
Unseen wrote:
meneerbeer wrote:Are the ddc_sda and ddc_sdl pulled up to +5V?
The Pluto doesn't have pullups for those two signals and since they're connected directly to (non-5V-tolerant) FPGA pins I configured them in a way that enables the clamping diode. One of the many small details that I've started to dislike about the Pluto IIx...
I wanted to ask as well when you first came out with the GCvideo-DVI code did you have a other PCB you were running the code on besides the pluto like you Video-lite board. I did use the 100ohm resistor at 5+ pullup HDMI connector. I was looking at the datasheet for the 200A and the pinouts are quite different then the 50A and was the reason I didn't order it. I also don't have anymore bare PCB's I would have to order 3 more but if I were to to do it again I would try the V2 design instead. I already converted happy_bunny's gerbers for the V1 so I just went with that to see how it went. I was a little worried about the build at first because of my IDE-EXI disaster and the HDMI connector was very challenging with the first one I built but I got the hang of it with the second and third PCB I built.
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Re: Cloning the GameCube component cable

Post by happy_bunny » Thu Jul 16, 2015 3:54 pm

there are three lines to pull up if you look at

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI

PIN18 is the line you connect via 100 ohms to 5V+, on my board PIN15 & PIN16 are pulled up via 10K to 5V+. On the p2x they are connect via the fpga to 3.3 volts that maybe causing you issues (this is all guess work mind you).
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