Cloning the GameCube component cable

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bobrocks95
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Re: Cloning the GameCube component cable

Post by bobrocks95 » Sat Oct 24, 2015 3:03 am

megalomaniac wrote:I prefer analog picture quality...but either way, the pic quality is great on both analog or digital


some TVs do better with analog signals than others
some TVs dont display digital signals as well as others
some people cant see as well....some people cant hear as well....
so everything is mostly matter of opinion / preference
I remember reading Sony TV gaming reviews on shmups forum and it was noted that the sets processed 480p better through the component input than the HDMI input. So that's definitely a very valid point. Nice to have options either way though!
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Re: Cloning the GameCube component cable

Post by megalomaniac » Sat Oct 24, 2015 3:30 am

....exactly
this is something to always keep in mind with testing.

its hard to prove how GCVideo analog or digital can look better than the other even while comparing the quality using the same TV since feeding the signal thru different input connections can impact the video quality. TVs have both an analog tuner and a digital tuner. So comparing Component to HDMI on the same TV leads to invalid results because the picture quality is dependent on the TVs separate analog and digital processing of the signal.

If anything, comparing the two would only allow the tester to determine if their own TV is better at accurately displaying from an analog or digital input source. But even this would not be a true test since GCVideo analog and GCVideo digital use two different hardware solutions to create the signal.

Try connecting your BluRay player to your TV and compare Component vs HDMI, and guess what? even this is not an accurate test because within the BluRay player the signal gets converted from digital to analog. So component video quality will depend on the quality of BluRays own video conversion hardware.




I could go on and on....
but the simple truth is: there is no real way to compare analog to digital since there are many factors that affect how either signal would be reproduced on your TVs screen....and in the end: it still comes down to opinion / preference based on the TV/hardware you are using....
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meneerbeer
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Re: Cloning the GameCube component cable

Post by meneerbeer » Sat Oct 24, 2015 7:55 am

For old systems analog + crt is best imo. Thanks to analog low res images + dithering are blurred to a degree.

I would still like to try GameCube on an old CRT monitor with analog inputs some day, but I do not have one anymore. :P
Last edited by meneerbeer on Sat Oct 24, 2015 8:44 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Cloning the GameCube component cable

Post by Unseen » Sat Oct 24, 2015 8:16 am

megalomaniac wrote:But even this would not be a true test since GCVideo analog and GCVideo digital use two different hardware solutions to create the signal.
A combined version with both analog and digital outputs could be created, although I doubt there would be much demand.
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Re: Cloning the GameCube component cable

Post by meneerbeer » Sat Oct 24, 2015 8:47 am

By the way, I think last time when I checked the video timings for 480p, I believe the hsync was 64 cycles long. According to CEA-861 it is 62 cycles. I don't think it matters that much, but it might be good to have knowledge of it.

I believe the Dreamcast has a hsync of 64 cycles as well. So maybe it is not just a coincidence.
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Re: Cloning the GameCube component cable

Post by megalomaniac » Sat Oct 24, 2015 9:40 am

Unseen wrote:
megalomaniac wrote:But even this would not be a true test since GCVideo analog and GCVideo digital use two different hardware solutions to create the signal.
A combined version with both analog and digital outputs could be created, although I doubt there would be much demand.
i had thought about this a few months back too and wondered....
then i remembered people for the most part are pretty much set in their decision to use either analog or digital.
A combined version could most likely only result in unused features and extra parts costs for the majority of people....


when i worked on the MX chip project i included the ability to have VGA or YPBPR with the flip of a switch....
if i recall properly, i think everyone only used one of the video outputs with no real need for the other...
im pretty sure the same would apply here....
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bobrocks95
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Re: Cloning the GameCube component cable

Post by bobrocks95 » Sat Oct 24, 2015 5:03 pm

megalomaniac wrote:i had thought about this a few months back too and wondered....
then i remembered people for the most part are pretty much set in their decision to use either analog or digital.
A combined version could most likely only result in unused features and extra parts costs for the majority of people....


when i worked on the MX chip project i included the ability to have VGA or YPBPR with the flip of a switch....
if i recall properly, i think everyone only used one of the video outputs with no real need for the other...
im pretty sure the same would apply here....
In the Gamecube's case I would switch between a CRT for Gameboy Player and an EDTV for everything else. What it really comes down to is the additional cost/manufacturing effort (if you're hand-soldering components) of including both. If I have to buy a second Gamecube and another board it's not the end of the world.

If you use the same board design for the analog and digital versions, and just add the components you need to for either version, would it be possible to make a dual-output version for people who want it? Not knowing anything about the design I could be talking out of my ass here of course.
meneerbeer wrote:For old systems analog + crt is best imo. Thanks to analog low res images + dithering are blurred to a degree.

I would still like to try GameCube on an old CRT monitor with analog inputs some day, but I do not have one anymore. :P
Low-res digital panels hide a lot as well.
For 480p stuff I'd say a PC CRT would look the best, and if you don't have one it's a toss-up between a 15KHz SD CRT or a modern LCD depending on how well it handles 480p content. The extra sharpness of 480p makes a big difference imo compared to flickery 480i on a CRT.
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Re: Cloning the GameCube component cable

Post by Xaranar » Sat Oct 24, 2015 11:32 pm

megalomaniac wrote:
Unseen wrote:
Xaranar wrote:If you zoom the picture to full size, you can see the striped effect I'm talking about. I put it as a URL so you can see the full size image.
Oh, interesting - the horizontal scan lines didn't show up for me when playing the video in Firefox, but it's visible in Chrome.
HA,
i dont see it in chrome
here is my best attempt to capture the exact same frame in the youtube link posted before
windwalker.JPG
i dont see scanlines on my end
That really is odd. Perhaps FireFox uses some extra filtering on video or something. Why would you ever use FailFox anyway? :P
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Re: Cloning the GameCube component cable

Post by bobrocks95 » Sun Oct 25, 2015 12:52 am

Because Chrome starts to chug if you get above 20 tabs or so
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Re: Cloning the GameCube component cable

Post by marcus9199 » Sun Oct 25, 2015 3:53 am

andre104623 wrote:
marcus9199 wrote:Finally got around to building my own. Excited about installing in the rest of my cubes.
Very nice I just built one lite version last night and it was hard soldering this thing. After comparing both DVI and analog version I can firmly say that picture quality is much better with the DVI/HDMI. I'm still waiting for the Shuriken video V2 PCBs to come back from the fab. I'll see how it performs compared to the pluto 2x since I'm using the 200a FPGA instead of the 50a.

This new job I got on monday is taking all my free time away but at least I'm making more money.
Thanks, yeah the soldering was a pain for me also, but in the end it worked. I just ordered some of the shuriken boards also. Im exited about them I really just wanted the GC-video Lite to try and use with the 5" good display in VGA, installed in an old intec screen case. Hopefully that turns out okay.
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Re: Cloning the GameCube component cable

Post by andre104623 » Fri Oct 30, 2015 2:39 am

Here is my build of the gcvideo-lite. Came out ok I want to make it a little neater next time. It really is hard getting the caps and resistors to fit the FPGA and DAC are the easy part of this board.
tmp_20396-20151029_2233442100630810.jpg
(2.59 MiB) Not downloaded yet
tmp_20396-20151029_223359-1202026828.jpg
(3.03 MiB) Not downloaded yet
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Re: Cloning the GameCube component cable

Post by megalomaniac » Fri Oct 30, 2015 3:42 am

watch out with all the solder splatter you have on the board, it could lead to a short somewhere if one of those blobs come loose...
remember how your other board blew up? could have been from solder splatter falling and shorting PWR GND

Also it might just be the camera angle with light and shadow playing tricks on the pic, but the RED 75ohm resistor looks like its floating over one pad. This might cause some interference or noise to display on screen.


Also take a look at the Lattice pins next to C10 and C12...
might just be the camera again, but it looks like there might be a faint string of solder shorting some of the pins on the FPGA



also you should avoid soldering to the JTAG pins...you have no idea how pissed i was when you sent me that board to fix...
it is such a pain to try to JTAG a board that has previous solder on the pads...you are forced to solder wires or header pins just to update the firmware.

Instead attach header pins to your JTAG cable. Insert the header pins into the board and flash it that way with no solder method...
you will find it much faster and easier....also anyone who might buy one of these from you will thank you rather than cuss your name all night...
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Re: Cloning the GameCube component cable

Post by andre104623 » Fri Oct 30, 2015 5:32 am

megalomaniac wrote:watch out with all the solder splatter you have on the board, it could lead to a short somewhere if one of those blobs come loose...
remember how your other board blew up? could have been from solder splatter falling and shorting PWR GND

Also it might just be the camera angle with light and shadow playing tricks on the pic, but the RED 75ohm resistor looks like its floating over one pad. This might cause some interference or noise to display on screen.


Also take a look at the Lattice pins next to C10 and C12...
might just be the camera again, but it looks like there might be a faint string of solder shorting some of the pins on the FPGA



also you should avoid soldering to the JTAG pins...you have no idea how pissed i was when you sent me that board to fix...
it is such a pain to try to JTAG a board that has previous solder on the pads...you are forced to solder wires or header pins just to update the firmware.

Instead attach header pins to your JTAG cable. Insert the header pins into the board and flash it that way with no solder method...
you will find it much faster and easier....also anyone who might buy one of these from you will thank you rather than cuss your name all night...
Its just the camera. The debris your seeing is from the qtip i used to clean the flux. I check everything with a meter to make sure there are no shorts and are making contact. I will say that it wasnt easy soldering the caps or resistors in place but all in all I think it came out ok I will do better next go around. As for the jtag cables being soldered I have a better setup for the Shuriken video but the programmer was cheap and the connectors were not making contact.

Don't judge my soldering skills with that ide-exi it was my first time and I was using improper tools. I have gotten much better this lite board was my first next one i will take more time to align components better

If you look at this pic you will see that every time i solder a fpga or hdmi connector i take a hd pic with my camera then i can zoom in to make sure that all pins are making contact.
tmp_20396-20151027_215658739990555.jpg
(3.19 MiB) Not downloaded yet
tmp_20396-20151027_215642692375022.jpg
(2.18 MiB) Not downloaded yet
Also I'm not making these for profit or mass production. I just wanted to try again since last time i wanted to build one of these i failed. I also made a few yet another usb gecko clone and shuriken video with xc3s200a. I solder for hobby and i enjoy building them only 2 people here bought a pcb i made. They are happy with them and i informed them that Im not a professional i just build for hobby thats the reason i sold them at cost. If either person had a problem with anything i would take care of it.
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Re: Cloning the GameCube component cable

Post by megalomaniac » Fri Oct 30, 2015 8:49 am

I said nothing about your skills on that ide-exi pcb...only pointing out a better way to JTAG using a no solder method




stay away from q-tips or anything that will leave behind all those strands on the board
try using a toothbrush...i prefer soft bristle...
...not the ones that have those massaging rubber bristles, just a cheap generic 1$ toothbrush


you might also want to consider a smaller tip for your iron. This will really help to decrease the amount of solder that stays behind on your components/pads...those pads are small enough and when you use a larger size iron tip it really makes it difficult to properly apply the heat onto the pad. A smaller tip should allow you to really get in close and make proper pad contact so you can eliminate any possibility of a cold joint....just make sure you also use a high enough heat setting when using smaller tips...


not sure what gauge solder wire you are using...something like 0.022" or 0.015" solder should also help
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Re: Cloning the GameCube component cable

Post by andre104623 » Fri Oct 30, 2015 10:42 pm

megalomaniac wrote:I said nothing about your skills on that ide-exi pcb...only pointing out a better way to JTAG using a no solder method




stay away from q-tips or anything that will leave behind all those strands on the board
try using a toothbrush...i prefer soft bristle...
...not the ones that have those massaging rubber bristles, just a cheap generic 1$ toothbrush


you might also want to consider a smaller tip for your iron. This will really help to decrease the amount of solder that stays behind on your components/pads...those pads are small enough and when you use a larger size iron tip it really makes it difficult to properly apply the heat onto the pad. A smaller tip should allow you to really get in close and make proper pad contact so you can eliminate any possibility of a cold joint....just make sure you also use a high enough heat setting when using smaller tips...


not sure what gauge solder wire you are using...something like 0.022" or 0.015" solder should also help
Yeah i was using a chisel tip for everything thats because I couldnt find my 0.2 pointed tip. I have since found my other tip and can try soldering again with the smaller tip. Most of my stuff was everywhere becuase of the move out of my old job and into the new one I still haven't moved my toolbox from the shop thing weights over 3000 pounds because I tried putting it on the truck lift and it couldnt move it. Crazy how many tools I have after taking them out of the box
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Re: Cloning the GameCube component cable

Post by megalomaniac » Fri Oct 30, 2015 11:14 pm

you can get rid of most of those specialized tools and substitute for a nice BFH
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Re: Cloning the GameCube component cable

Post by andre104623 » Fri Oct 30, 2015 11:57 pm

megalomaniac wrote:you can get rid of most of those specialized tools and substitute for a nice BFH
Whats a BFH? I wish i could get rid of my specialized tools that i use maybe 2-3 times a year.

Had to look it up lol it would be nice if all I needed is a big f***ing hammer. I was just saying that when you have everything organized in order it doesn't look like much but when I had to empty it out I just couldn't believe how much there was. But really it sucks I hate moving this thing
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Re: Cloning the GameCube component cable

Post by marcus9199 » Fri Nov 20, 2015 4:24 pm

Nice they used my picture on retro collect http://www.retrocollect.com/News/hdmi-o ... ecube.html It's for the wrong mod but still cool!
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Re: Cloning the GameCube component cable

Post by megalomaniac » Fri Nov 20, 2015 8:06 pm

looks like the store promoted in that article also just got banned by paypal for offering region free mods...
https://twitter.com/VGPerfection/status ... 1863390208

they even confiscated all his cash too....

i wonder who the company was that filed the complaint mentioned here in this article:
http://www.videogameperfection.com/2015 ... suspended/
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Re: Cloning the GameCube component cable

Post by marcus9199 » Fri Nov 20, 2015 10:04 pm

Damn that's messed up!! Just for region free.
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Re: Cloning the GameCube component cable

Post by Unseen » Sun Nov 22, 2015 7:56 pm

Xaranar wrote:In fact, if I plug it straight into my monitor and enable DVI enhanced mode, whilst it works, the picture seems to wobble uncontrollably.
There is a chance that this problem is resolved in version 2.1, available on Github since a few minutes ago.

The other new feature is a volume setting in the OSD which I recommend to leave at 255 unless you are forced to use a display that has no volume control itself. Since I'm too lazy to add backwards compatibility to the way settings are stored, this release includes a free settings-reset too! ;)
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Re: Cloning the GameCube component cable

Post by meneerbeer » Sun Nov 22, 2015 8:17 pm

Sync timing fix for enhanced DVI mode
Really curious, what did you change?
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Re: Cloning the GameCube component cable

Post by Unseen » Sun Nov 22, 2015 9:10 pm

meneerbeer wrote:Really curious, what did you change?
During data islands, changes in the sync signals were sent to the output one pixel too early - it was an artifact from an earlier revision where that path through the system was one clock longer.

In practice, it only affects the HSync signal, only on lines where two data packets are sent and only in 31kHz output modes (480p/576p) - in the 15kHz modes, the duration of the HSync signal is much longer than the 64 pixels needed to send two data packets.

I haven't received a confirmation yet, but this bug probably caused a slight line jitter on some Sony TVs - whenever a clock regeneration packet was sent (in addition to the audio sample packet on the same line), the video data following it was shifted by one pixel on the screen.
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Re: Cloning the GameCube component cable

Post by Xaranar » Mon Nov 23, 2015 8:37 am

Unseen wrote:
Xaranar wrote:In fact, if I plug it straight into my monitor and enable DVI enhanced mode, whilst it works, the picture seems to wobble uncontrollably.
There is a chance that this problem is resolved in version 2.1, available on Github since a few minutes ago.

The other new feature is a volume setting in the OSD which I recommend to leave at 255 unless you are forced to use a display that has no volume control itself. Since I'm too lazy to add backwards compatibility to the way settings are stored, this release includes a free settings-reset too! ;)
Interesting, I'll have to give it a try next week as I'm in London all this week on training.
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Re: Cloning the GameCube component cable

Post by Xaranar » Mon Nov 30, 2015 6:27 pm

Unseen wrote:
Xaranar wrote:In fact, if I plug it straight into my monitor and enable DVI enhanced mode, whilst it works, the picture seems to wobble uncontrollably.
There is a chance that this problem is resolved in version 2.1, available on Github since a few minutes ago.

The other new feature is a volume setting in the OSD which I recommend to leave at 255 unless you are forced to use a display that has no volume control itself. Since I'm too lazy to add backwards compatibility to the way settings are stored, this release includes a free settings-reset too! ;)
Just upgraded to the new version, and I can confirm that the wobbling issue has been resolved, thanks!
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