Enabling 480p in PAL games

[Paar86]

Hi. I was wondering if it is possible to somehow denable 480p in PAL version of games directly by editing the files on the disc.

For example Metroid Prime 1. PAL version is superior to NTSC one because it is more balanced and it contains new stuff. But it doesn't support progressive scan.

Theoretically, what would have to be done if I wanted to make it work? Maybe insert some piece of code that's present in NTSC version into PAL version? At startup, PAL version offers only 60 Hz option. It would be nice if it could be switched with a loader that would offer progressive scan.

So is it possible or not? What do you think? Thanks .

[andre104623]

Use swiss before boot up and force 480p there problem solved

[Paar86]

Well I should be more specific. I want to play PAL Metroid Prime in 480p. Swiss can play Metroid Prime in 480p but the picture is squished horizontaly and the game runs a little faster. And it seems that it doesn't improve the resolution, it looks like it's just 240 lines doubled to 480 lines.

That's why I was wondering if you could modify the ISO file so it cut produce progressive picture directly.

[Paar86]

I'll try to put it differently. When you boot up a PAL game, you'll often see a question if you want to turn on the 60 Hz mode. I guess it's some kind of loader that manages it.

Would it be possible to modify the files on the disc so I'd get the question whether I want to turn on progressive scan or not? Just like in the NTSC games. Where is this piece of code located? In which file?

[tueidj]

Every game is coded differently.

[Paar86]

But what about the same game, only from different region?

[badsector]

They took out the code for progressive scan.

[Paar86]

That's why I was wondering if it is somehow possible to put it back. The code exists, but in different version of the game. It should be compatible, more or less. The problem is my knowledge of file structure of the GC games is limited so I don't know where to look. Or what to try.

[novenary]

It's not just about file structure, you need to debug the executables to trace down the exact piece of code that enables 480p.

[Paar86]

I wish I knew how to do that. Any volunteers?

[megalomaniac]

Well I should be more specific. I want to play PAL Metroid Prime in 480p. Swiss can play Metroid Prime in 480p but the picture is squished horizontaly and the game runs a little faster. And it seems that it doesn't improve the resolution, it looks like it's just 240 lines doubled to 480 lines.

just need to ask since there was no mention of it....
do you have a component cable??

[Paar86]

Yes, I have the component cable, I have imported it from Japan. Even if I can turn progressive mode in Metroid Prime 1 using 50 Hz option, the screen is stretched and the game runs a little faster. And as I said before, to me it looks like the resolution is not improved.

[tueidj]

Why would you expect the resolution to improve when you're going from PAL (720x576) to NTSC (720x480)?

[Paar86]

Because true 480p is still better than 576i (or 288p doubled if you force the progressive scan in Metroid Prime 1). I have US version of the game and it looks more detailed in 480p (but it lacks the enhancements from the JPN and PAL versions). Even emukidid confirmed that the game doesn't run in true 480p resolution when forced into progressive scan through Swiss. That was two years ago.

[badsector]

It looks very good in 576p, so I don't know what your problem is.

[novenary]

Because true 480p is still better than 576i

Wrong. Progressive scan will double the framerate, not the vertical resolution. If you have a good deinterlacer on an LCD or plasma TV, 480p will have a lower resolution than 576i.

[Paar86]

It looks very good in 576p, so I don't know what your problem is.

There is no way to run the game in 576p. Not that I know of.

Because true 480p is still better than 576i

Wrong. Progressive scan will double the framerate, not the vertical resolution. If you have a good deinterlacer on an LCD or plasma TV, 480p will have a lower resolution than 576i.

Well, I don't agree. Metroid Prime runs at 60 fps in NTSC regions and 50 fps in PAL regions. There is no increase in resolution as each frame holds only half of the information (240 lines for NTSC and 288 lines for PAL). This is limitation of the interlaced picture. When using progressive scan (in this case 480p), you can see 60 full frames per second, therefore the resolution is increased.

I just tried to force progressive scan in Metroid Prime 1 again and the result is terrible. The picture is squished, the game runs 17 % faster than normal and the graphics are fuzzy because of the conversion from 576i to 480p. It's not usable.

[novenary]

I think you need to go back and read up on what interlacing does. It splits up a frame in half and sends the odd lines then the even lines (or the opposite, doesn't matter). Interlaced is 25fps in 50Hz mode and 30fps in 60Hz mode, and it keeps the resolution intact. It was designed to refresh the screen faster.

[meneerbeer]

I think you need to go back and read up on what interlacing does. It splits up a frame in half and sends the odd lines then the even lines (or the opposite, doesn't matter). Interlaced is 25fps in 50Hz mode and 30fps in 60Hz mode, and it keeps the resolution intact. It was designed to refresh the screen faster.

Usually the odd field contains video data from a later point in time than the even field before that. I think most GC games are rendered internally at 60 fps. In that case you definitely benefit from 480p/576p.

Why not force 576p? Otherwise you could get the NTSC version, if you really want 480p.

[Paar86]

Why not force 576p? Otherwise you could get the NTSC version, if you really want 480p.

That's no way to force 576p, or at least the software I use doesn't offer it. And the NTSC version of the game doesn't have all later revisions implemented (and some of them are quite big).

I think you need to go back and read up on what interlacing does. It splits up a frame in half and sends the odd lines then the even lines (or the opposite, doesn't matter). Interlaced is 25fps in 50Hz mode and 30fps in 60Hz mode, and it keeps the resolution intact. It was designed to refresh the screen faster.

I know what interlacing does. Your description is true for material that is displayed in 30/25 fps. But if you have material (like Metroid Prime 1) that runs in 60 fps, you cannot display 60 full frames in 480i or 50 full frames in 576i. Each field is rendered differently so they cannot be combined into one full frame. That's why it cannot be effectively deinterlaced. The information is not there.

[novenary]

You raise a valid point, but (the following is only speculation) the hardware is likely designed to buffer frames for interlaced signal, otherwise it would look like ass.

Usually the odd field contains video data from a later point in time than the even field before that. I think most GC games are rendered internally at 60 fps. In that case you definitely benefit from 480p/576p.

Actually a lot of games run at 30fps. Super Mario Sunshine, both Zeldas, Pikmin 2 to only quote a few. Of course there are the 60fps games but see my opinion above.

[Paar86]

It does look noticably worse than 480p but it's still better resolution than on i.e. Nintendo 64 that ran most of the games at 320x240 (versus 640x240 on Gamecube at 480i/60fps). But I saw the difference between 480i and 480p and cannot go back. That's why I'm trying to find out if it is possible to force true 480p in PAL Metroid Prime 1. The game just looks gorgeous at higher resolution and definitely deserves the treatment.

[novenary]

Swiss can actually force 576p in games, have you tried the latest version ?

[Paar86]

Swiss can actually force 576p in games, have you tried the latest version ?

I tried to run the game forcing 576p but the only thing I get is black screen. No luck there.

[novenary]

Which revision are you running ?