gc-forever - Gamecube/Wii Forums

Posted: **Wed Nov 30, 2011 3:24 pm**

Went ahead and ordered 10 chips. I doubt these will get here anytime soon with the holiday rush. Last year some packages I ordered about at the same date took more than 2 months to get from China to Qc, Canada.

megalomaniac wrote: here are the component video connectors..

Is there enough place inside de Gamecube too properly mount those? I was thinking buying single panel mount phono socket but these could make the job cleaner. Where did you get them, what is the part number? Thanks!

Posted: **Thu Dec 01, 2011 4:48 am**

Just noticed this thread and thought I'd share my experience of GC video cables.

I've got one of the official component cables but I don't often use it because the picture quality is not a whole lot better than RGB PAL or even S-Video fed into a good TV (has built-in upscan converter?). It produces ultra-sharp text but can (depending on the game) give disturbingly sharp jaggies too. The main inconvenience is that you still need a standard cable to get the sound out. It is overpriced too because a limited number were made (they aren't rare, they just didn't sell) and they are fed onto the market in a trickle, keeping the price up. By the way, in case anyone doesn't know, only the earlier consoles and special editions support these cables. I understand that the GC outputs digital video and this is converted by a chip in the cable to analogue. Also for anyone who doesn't know, the RGB output on a Japanese console does not work on foreign TVs (I think some of the pins have been swapped).

Posted: **Thu Dec 01, 2011 2:30 pm**

Thanks for the input.

I don't know if it's only my TV but every system I have looks better a first sight using component over S-Video. For example, I used to play my N64 using S-Video but I recently modded it to output RGBs. Using a cheap chinese RBG to VGA upscaler(GBS-8220, I have a NTSC TV therefor RGBs is not supported natively) I can say that the image looks alot better than S-Video.

Of course alot of Gamecube games do not play in 480p but still, component signals offer more color separation than S-Video.

I'm currently waiting for the B012355 DAC chip to get here. I plan on installing it inside of the console to mount the 3 component output on the back of the GameCube. This way it'll probably cost me no more than 20$ for it. I think it's not too much paid for better graphics and keeping my hands busy for a while. Anyway if it does not look good I'll simply fall back to S-Video knowing I only lost 20$ on this.

Posted: **Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:54 am**

HomelandReloaded wrote:Just noticed this thread and thought I'd share my experience of GC video cables.

I've got one of the official component cables but I don't often use it because the picture quality is not a whole lot better than RGB PAL or even S-Video fed into a good TV (has built-in upscan converter?). It produces ultra-sharp text but can (depending on the game) give disturbingly sharp jaggies too. The main inconvenience is that you still need a standard cable to get the sound out. It is overpriced too because a limited number were made (they aren't rare, they just didn't sell) and they are fed onto the market in a trickle, keeping the price up. By the way, in case anyone doesn't know, only the earlier consoles and special editions support these cables. I understand that the GC outputs digital video and this is converted by a chip in the cable to analogue. Also for anyone who doesn't know, the RGB output on a Japanese console does not work on foreign TVs (I think some of the pins have been swapped).

Over priced..i agree, hence the reason to make alternative cables using the same MX chip at a lower price

as previously posted in this thread of screen shot comparisons...There is quite a difference between composite interlaced video and YPBPR interlaced (Component) video..Huge difference between composite interlaced and YPBPR progressive..

S-video may look good on a TV with a built in up-scan...but the signal is not as separated as YPBPR..
either way, S-video is still "composite" but with a cherry on top...and will never be on par with the quality of YPBPR signal and never capable of progressive scan.

As for your comparison of RGB PAL to YPBPR, true..RGB PAL will look as good or better than YPBPR since RGB is a pure signal..
but there is a catch: its is referred to RGB PAL because this signal is only available on PAL Gamecubes..
NTSC TVs are mostly incapable of accepting a RGB signal therefore NTSC gamecubes do not have RGB output and will require a gamer to purchase a PAL TV + PAL Gamecube....
or buy a Gamecube component cable...

The most unfortunate fact is NTSC Gamecubes require the component cable to achieve a better picture quality than composite/s-video. Also, a modified component cable is currently the only option to output VGA signal to "most" monitors..

Posted: **Fri Dec 02, 2011 2:06 am**

psyko_chewbacca wrote:Thanks for the input.

I don't know if it's only my TV but every system I have looks better a first sight using component over S-Video. For example, I used to play my N64 using S-Video but I recently modded it to output RGBs. Using a cheap chinese RBG to VGA upscaler(GBS-8220, I have a NTSC TV therefor RGBs is not supported natively) I can say that the image looks alot better than S-Video.

Of course alot of Gamecube games do not play in 480p but still, component signals offer more color separation than S-Video.

I'm currently waiting for the B012355 DAC chip to get here. I plan on installing it inside of the console to mount the 3 component output on the back of the GameCube. This way it'll probably cost me no more than 20$ for it. I think it's not too much paid for better graphics and keeping my hands busy for a while. Anyway if it does not look good I'll simply fall back to S-Video knowing I only lost 20$ on this.

quick question...just remembered, did you confirm they were "MX" B012355, not "AD" B012355???
also, ask the seller if they have they might have the spec sheet, my seller didnt have one..DAMN!!

as for the part number of the component connectors, i dont know the part number..
I ordered a huge hot load of them on ebay..
speaking of which, i seem to be missing a connector, i think it might have accidentally fallen into the package with the broadband adapter.

Posted: **Fri Dec 02, 2011 5:39 am**

Yes, I agree that component video is sharper than composite video; I am just giving my experience as a gamer rather than a developer who will want the sharpest image possible. Also, it does depend a lot on the display being used. I think the project is very worth while because people shouldn't have to pay collectors prices for a cable that isn't worth more than 50usd imo and with no audio. (btw if the cube outputs digital video, does anyone know if it is possible in theory to feed this to a DVI input? I just wonder about this cos of the diffence in sharpness between VGA and DVI input on my PC display.)

megalomaniac wrote:As for your comparison of RGB PAL to YPBPR, true..RGB PAL will look as good or better than YPBPR since RGB is a pure signal..
but there is a catch: its is referred to RGB PAL because this signal is only available on PAL Gamecubes..
NTSC TVs are mostly incapable of accepting a RGB signal therefore NTSC gamecubes do not have RGB output and will require a gamer to purchase a PAL TV + PAL Gamecube....

Interesting about the RGB; I would have thought that the RGB signal would be present even if it is not used. That could explain why I can't get RGB from a Japanese cube with either a EUR RGB cable or a JAP RGB cable (both official Nintendo).

Posted: **Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:47 pm**

Scart has been around for decades. So I understand your turn offs when having to use two separate cables. Until HDMI broke onto the scene, a lot of NTSC electronic devices required separate cables for audio and video...
it's still normal to us.

DVI (analog) shouldn't be a problem and is on the list of things to do.
DVI digital, well that's a different story. If doing DVI digital, why not use HDMI and add digital audio as well.
Of course the HDMI signals would be limited by gamecube hardware to max resolution 480p. But at least it would offer a one all be all single cable solution for audio and video similar to the wii HDMIkey.

Another alternative to buying a Gamecube component video cable is to buy a Wii.

Posted: **Fri Dec 02, 2011 2:28 pm**

But does the Wii do as good a job at up scaling 480i and 480p as a Gamecube will? How about digital audio?

Posted: **Fri Dec 02, 2011 4:46 pm**

Crap, got refunded by my contact... He said his supplier had an error in his inventory and does not carry anymore units. Back to searching.

quick question...just remembered, did you confirm they were "MX" B012355, not "AD" B012355???
also, ask the seller if they have they might have the spec sheet, my seller didnt have one..DAMN!!

Don't worry I checked I would be getting MX chips. Do you think Analog Devices did make the same chips as MX? I'll also try to get as much information as possible from my contact about that chip. I don't think anyone other than Nintendo and MX have the datasheet. I think these are still under copyright so they can't be released to the public.

I'll try to find another source. Are you having any lead megalomaniac?

Posted: **Fri Dec 02, 2011 5:21 pm**

Hucklebuck wrote:But does the Wii do as good a job at up scaling 480i and 480p as a Gamecube will? How about digital audio?

Probably that the Wii is doing a great job with GC games with component cables for video. I doubt the Wii upscale GC games. I haven't heard anything about direct SP/DIF audio output other than buying those HDMI converters for WII that only transcode the Analog output to a digital signal. Not worth any money IMO.

The idea of this is to get the best possible A/V signal on the GC games while keeping the original feel and playability of the game. I won't turn down my GC in favor of a Wii. Of course I won't shell $120+ for a component cable but we are looking in other alternative.

I may have found another supplier of the MX chip. If I can get ahold of some, I will mill a PCB. I had the idea of soldering the 3 component phono jack straight on the PCB(vertically) and mount it behind the disc drive if the thing turn out thin enough. I have access to a PCB CNC mill and that would allow me to use smaller SMD components instead of doing the whole thing on a perfboard with through hole components.

I really hope I'll be able to buy some chips now!

Posted: **Sat Dec 03, 2011 3:11 am**

psyko_chewbacca wrote:Crap, got refunded by my contact... He said his supplier had an error in his inventory and does not carry anymore units. Back to searching.

quick question...just remembered, did you confirm they were "MX" B012355, not "AD" B012355???
also, ask the seller if they have they might have the spec sheet, my seller didnt have one..DAMN!!
Don't worry I checked I would be getting MX chips. Do you think Analog Devices did make the same chips as MX? I'll also try to get as much information as possible from my contact about that chip. I don't think anyone other than Nintendo and MX have the datasheet. I think these are still under copyright so they can't be released to the public.

I'll try to find another source. Are you having any lead megalomaniac?

damn...tough break, but it does make sense..
you have no idea how many hours upon hours ive spent searching and contacting suppliers..
I was actually a little envious at how quickly you "found" some chips so fast..and also at the 10$ per chip you stated...
shit....these babies i ordered came out to quite a bit more per piece...
as best as i can recall, ive been looking for chips and contacting every possible lead since September..
once i found a few leads, i did not purchase, i waited (knowing they were not going anywhere, hehe).....phase 1 complete = chips found

then i bought one of those overly expensive component cables to begin the process of testing, pinout schematics, determining component values, duplicating the circuit on breadboard (pic first post), and troubleshooting...phase 2 complete = successfully recreated the circuit

with those first two phases having been completed, i made the purchase for all 31 chips from the supplier..but I too had a bit of bad luck..
their inventory was wrong, they only had 19.
Playing hardball, I asked if there were other suppliers available to purchase from instead because i needed minimum of 50 before i could commit to a purchase..
the supplier pulled all resources together to contact other suppliers and managed to find a few more..
of course those few more add up to the exact quantity of the other leads i previously found..
so at this point in time, i dont think there is anymore available according to the past few months of research...
phase 3 complete = secure and order the chips...MX B012355 and TC9231N

Phase 4 in process = order all the other shit required to make this project work while trying to keep overall cost / final sales cost as cheap as possible

Phase 5 = ?? test fiber optic audio

Phase 6 = ?? determine if i can make an external digi port adapter, if not, then supply will only be sold to the brave (modders)

Phase 7 = ?? custom make em (user specified options) / test em / sell em

the reason to custom make some boards is:
since the opportunity exists, not not??

some portablizeres might need a certain requirements....(please dont specify a board design smaller than the actual chip, ya bastids...)
some might want video only..
some might want fiber only...
some might want video and fiber...
some might want the board in a specific location...

just to add, if the ability is available to make custom designs exists, why not??
no matter what, the Gamecube user benefits in the long run...

the reverse engineering ive accomplished (for what my words are worth) has been proven to be correct upon my testings...
the supply of chips is very limited, i really wish there was more available to offer since ebay prices are highway robbery!!
I have not given up on using the MX chip as the only means to achieve better video signal...i hope to break down and completely reverse engineer the chip itself (if possible)...but i may not be successful in this task...
until then, i only offer what i have successfully tested to function...

psyko_chewbacca wrote:
Hucklebuck wrote:But does the Wii do as good a job at up scaling 480i and 480p as a Gamecube will? How about digital audio?
Probably that the Wii is doing a great job with GC games with component cables for video. I doubt the Wii upscale GC games. I haven't heard anything about direct SP/DIF audio output other than buying those HDMI converters for WII that only transcode the Analog output to a digital signal. Not worth any money IMO.

The idea of this is to get the best possible A/V signal on the GC games while keeping the original feel and playability of the game. I won't turn down my GC in favor of a Wii. Of course I won't shell $120+ for a component cable but we are looking in other alternative.

I may have found another supplier of the MX chip. If I can get ahold of some, I will mill a PCB. I had the idea of soldering the 3 component phono jack straight on the PCB(vertically) and mount it behind the disc drive if the thing turn out thin enough. I have access to a PCB CNC mill and that would allow me to use smaller SMD components instead of doing the whole thing on a perfboard with through hole components.

I really hope I'll be able to buy some chips now!

i think Wii "may" output the same 480p signal as Gamecube...since this is accomplished thru internal Wii hardware
i have not yet done a side by side comparison...but why buy a Wii when a cheaper cable alternative can be had??

agree, the wii hdmi adapter only converts analog audio to digital audio
however the signal being converted is only ProLogic II, at root, PLII only requires an analog connection
due to software and hardware limitations, PLII is the best audio achievable...no matter if its analog or digital
but since the hdmi converter converts analog audio to digital, it "may not" be as clean as a pure Gamecube digital signal to fiber optic conversion...
more testing to be done.....i need to buy a wii hdmi adapter to confirm

Posted: **Mon Dec 05, 2011 4:34 am**

This is gonna be really cool if you are able to produce some of these cables for sale.

I really like playing games with the original hardware, now with better resolution!

Posted: **Mon Dec 05, 2011 2:13 pm**

Hey megalomaniac. If I could not find any parts, and that will be probably the case, how much would you charge me for a set of chip? I'm talking about one B012355 and one TC9231N. I would like to get on with that PCB development thing I told you earlier.

I live in Quebec, Canada. My postal code is J3H 2R6.

Thanks

Posted: **Tue Dec 06, 2011 9:00 am**

psyko_chewbacca wrote:Hey megalomaniac. If I could not find any parts, and that will be probably the case, how much would you charge me for a set of chip? I'm talking about one B012355 and one TC9231N. I would like to get on with that PCB development thing I told you earlier.

I live in Quebec, Canada. My postal code is J3H 2R6.

Thanks

hang on for a few weeks...until i receive my shipment
im testing the waters on suppliers...im not absolutely sure if the other supplier pool has been absorbed into my order..
once i receive my chips i will contact those other suppliers to confirm if they still have stock...if they do, ill toss you a lead

keep in mind, those other suppliers appeared to only estimate about 5 chips availability...
the worst part, every single one of those assholes require a ~20$ transaction fee and ~45$ shipping fee...(~75$ fee for fast delivery)
so that really stings because unfortunately, it bumps up the price per individual chip...not to mention those suppliers have a freakin jacked up price per chip to begin with...now if i could find 50 or 100 chips, sure i would order again, but i dont want to spend another few months searching...
i have other projects i would like to begin after this...

NOTE: at this point in time, I really have no intention in making another order due to the high cost for the remaining 5 or so chips out there..
once this supply of MX chips are gone, they are gone and I WILL move on...

back to the months of searching thing...so, after searching for months, ive finally settled on this small order because it was the overall most cost effective for the individual gamer, which would also allow me to self manufacture and distribute to members...since i wont charge for the manufacture process ( because i like to build ) it only helps with the overall cost savings to produce these myself...not to mention, this project will allow me to try newer improved techniques in building ive been wanting to experiment with...
is Jack Daniels considered a new build technique???

....at the same time, in the long run, who are we to complain about overall costs and fees of an ASIC chip which is for the most part "unavailable"????
i think i have come across a damn good deal considering....and with the added fiber optic audio abilities...i imagine this may be a once in a lifetime opportunity while keeping the price lower for forum members...compared to the standard ebay going rate...

i hope im wrong about the once in a lifetime opportunity statement....but who else in the last 10 years since GC has been around has tried this type of project????

Posted: **Thu Dec 08, 2011 1:00 pm**

Well keep me informed on your shipment. I had another lead but it turned out that th company could get ahold of my order because his supplier realized he was out of stock. Fortunately for me I wanted to cut my spendings but the police may have found the person who robbed my house.

I say may because you are always presumed innocent before being formely accused of something but it's just a matter of formality. Let's just say that the guy really knew his way around my newly acquired house

. I never thought the police would actually resolve this as they are far more interested in giving speeding tickets and looking for kids that drink beer in parks...

Anyway I might be able to get some of my stuff back and I won't have to pay anything! Too bad that broadband adapter has been reserved to someone else but I think I can live with it!

Just keep me informed for those chips I will surely buy one set from you to mod my console for embedded component and Toslink outputs!

EDIT : Also, the TC9231N chips you're supposed to get are in DIP package right? I might start my PCB design soon so I must be sure to get the chips footprint right.

Posted: **Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:02 am**

And I thought progress on a 3rd party component cable was dead.

If the cable can be sold for a $40-50, I would very happy to order one

(Netherlands). Been searching for the cable, and only found this website for a reasonable price: http://www.consolesandgadgets.co.uk/cat ... -1235.html . It looks like the Germans found a way to create a 3rd party one, but for a very high price: http://www.wolfsoft.de/shop/product_inf ... v)-2m.html.

I wouldn't even mind if it is a DIY package.

Posted: **Tue Dec 13, 2011 12:09 pm**

So what's the issue with HDMI? We know DOL-001 outputs digital audio/video by a single connector. And YCbCr from HDMI input is supported by certain TVs, as Xbox 360 demonstrates. Likely covering both those obvious bases.

Posted: **Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:20 pm**

pr0ton wrote:Been searching for the cable, and only found this website for a reasonable price: http://www.consolesandgadgets.co.uk/cat ... -1235.html . It looks like the Germans found a way to create a 3rd party one, but for a very high price: http://www.wolfsoft.de/shop/product_inf ... v)-2m.html

I think you'll find that the cable from the UK is a backorder (i.e. out of stock). The one on the german site looks like the real thing from Nintendo. When ppl do make one themselves they often mod a Nintendo D terminal cable. It used to be quite cheap on eBay because it is useless outside Japan, but sellers now seem to think it should cost more.

Posted: **Wed Dec 14, 2011 5:46 pm**

HomelandReloaded wrote:
pr0ton wrote:Been searching for the cable, and only found this website for a reasonable price: http://www.consolesandgadgets.co.uk/cat ... -1235.html . It looks like the Germans found a way to create a 3rd party one, but for a very high price: http://www.wolfsoft.de/shop/product_inf ... v)-2m.html
I think you'll find that the cable from the UK is a backorder (i.e. out of stock). The one on the german site looks like the real thing from Nintendo. When ppl do make one themselves they often mod a Nintendo D terminal cable. It used to be quite cheap on eBay because it is useless outside Japan, but sellers now seem to think it should cost more.

Ok, finding a connector for the Digital AV-port is indeed another story.

I'm trying to connect the cube to a VGA projector, but will both 480i and 480p games work then over VGA (edit: no, only 480p, http://www.eurasia.nu/wiki/index.php/Ga ... gbVgaCable)? When ordered a chip from megalomaniac, only some wiring to a VGA (female) port is needed, as I don't think megalomaniac will supply them with VGA.

Posted: **Wed Dec 14, 2011 6:39 pm**

All games work with the VGA mod, including the GC boot screens.

Posted: **Wed Dec 14, 2011 7:08 pm**

Ashen wrote:All games work with the VGA mod, including the GC boot screens.

Ok, but only the 15kHz capable VGA monitors?:

This mod will work like as transcoders. So, you need progressive output. To invoke progressive mode is depend of software.Check your game's manual carefully.Your first invoke ot progressive mode, you will need another TV. Most of VGA monitors can not accept 15kHz signals. When you using this cable for VGA, you can not see anything at 15kHz, even NGC's boot up screen.

Posted: **Wed Dec 14, 2011 8:17 pm**

No, when you VGA mod the official component cable it outputs 31khz all the time. Set to progressive or not. The last portable I built uses a screen that only accepts VGA 31khz signals, everything displays perfectly on it.

Posted: **Wed Dec 14, 2011 8:37 pm**

Ashen wrote:No, when you VGA mod the official component cable it outputs 31khz all the time. Set to progressive or not. The last portable I built uses a screen that only accepts VGA 31khz signals, everything displays perfectly on it.

That is very good news! Of course you used a technique to work with all the games in your incredibly small portable. Only have to wait a little more for the component cable now.

Posted: **Fri Dec 16, 2011 11:47 pm**

Ashen wrote:No, when you VGA mod the official component cable it outputs 31khz all the time. Set to progressive or not. The last portable I built uses a screen that only accepts VGA 31khz signals, everything displays perfectly on it.

im curious why postings all over the web indicate there is a display issue after doing a VGA mod which indicates the user cannot view initial startup until the progressive mode message appears. This seems like there is a 15khz / 31khz transition...
however at the same time, you state your monitor is incapable of receiving 15khz signal yet you can view everything normal with no issues...

one possible explanation that comes to mind while viewing different images on the web:
there appear to be different revisions of the chip or (most likely) different production run ID's.
it would be nice to confirm if the last line is indeed a rev change (wishful thinking)

if you can still get access to your chip, please post the chip Rev/ID (or a pic if not shown below..)

Code: Select all

B012355
CMPV-DOL
T2164(xxx)

I have confirmed 4 different Rev/ID markings so far..only three shown below.

Posted: **Fri Dec 23, 2011 5:34 am**

Look at what i got in the mail

TC9231 chips arrived also but not pictured

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