Wavebird Rumble Mod?

[Benni]

Hi There!

Is there a Wavebird Rumble Mod available?

[megalomaniac]

be aware: none of the following information i am posting is correct or accurate to any extent...


i have wondered about a wavebird rumble mod also..
i tore one apart last year to take a look at this possibility..
there are TWO MAJOR questions that must be investigated and addressed to determine if a rumble mod is possible:



the receiver part of the wavebird has two "unknown' ICs...
(#1) a processor IC (controller data encoder/decoder, or possibly a translator)
(#2) RF receiver IC

question 1: Does the receiver unit also function as a transmitter...and if so, does all data (including rumble data) get transmitted to the controller??



the controller part of the wavebird has an another "unknown" IC
this IC is different from standard official controllers as it has a lot more pins. the IC processes the controller data.
I did not remove the black plastic molding from the back of the controller pcb to determine if there was another IC (possibly a RF transmitter/receiver, or does the controller only have a single main IC which processes controller data and also functions as the RF transmitter/receiver)

question 2: Does the main IC have the ability to process and output rumble data??





without knowing the functions of all the ICs, it will be harder to determine if rumble can be added to the wavebird. I have a theory about possibility of rumble for these controllers:

it is possible during the RnD phase, rumble was present on the wavebird. After performance testing of battery life was considered, nintendo may have opted to remove the rumble feature to maximize battery life.
with this decision, there would be no reason to redesign the main transmitter unit and there would be no reason to use a different main IC. All the same IC could be used and the hardware necessary for rumble was simply left out of the final pcb design.
if this theory is true or close enough to the truth, then possibly isolating the pins on the controllers IC could allow rumble to be added to these wavebirds.

[Benni]

O.K.
Thank you very much!
I think YOU will find a way!
(UHM - more soldering for you! )

There are no solderpoints for the vibrating motor?
I have no wavebird so i cant open it and take a look by myself...

[ZeroUnderOne]

Are the rumble motors present in the wavebird and just not activated? If not, is there even any space to pop 2 of them in?

[megalomaniac]

no rumble motors on the wavebird controller

[yamaharacer]

nintendo let them out because they thought they would need to much current so that the controller wouldnt have long playtimes. I think the chassi has the holders for the electrical engines already inside. you only have to put them in and solder them to the solderpoints.

[MarSAttK]

@yamaharacer: You mean that to get them working or to start testing?

[yamaharacer]

I dont do anything because I havent any wavebird here. But hardly its the same layout like the gamecube wired controller. So there should only the electrical engines left the rest should still be there.

[megalomaniac]

when i opened up the wavebird last year...i dont think i saw any type of rumble associated circuitry...
i could maybe take another look...but not till later...

[ZeroUnderOne]

True, no rumble motors and no room either it looks like.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/garyfixler ... 051163804/

[yamaharacer]

what do you mean? there is enough space to put them in there but for soldering you have to look where you will get the signals.

[ZeroUnderOne]

Oh dang, you think so? It seems like it's pretty packed to me. The rumble motor spot is taken up by the antennae thing but I guess that can be moved. If I get bored this weekend I'll take a controller apart and see if I trace the rumble contact back to the IC.



edit: Found this, maybe useful for later reference.

[megalomaniac]

the type of IC on the "wired" controller is different in the wavebird..
ashen has already pinned out this wired controller...


re-read my first post above and understand the two initial questions which must be determined first...( i just edited it to add bold text)

[ZeroUnderOne]

Nice dude! Totally put it in perspective for me, sorry I get excited and scatterbrained.

This is fun to think about. Hmm, does this missing IC spot on the pcb look suspicious? Or maybe you guys already have an idea for what it's functions is/was?

edit: I should probably cite the pictures source.

[yamaharacer]

now you should also open a wired controller to compare each layout with each other

[|RDC|]

Just to add some info to this topic.

Comparing the wired controller to the Wavebird will not reveal anything, as has already been pointed out, they use different MCUs.

IC204, the empty spot over on the right of the board, was more likely to have been some kind of Rapid Fire chip than Rumble, as it's connected to the main buttons on board for the most part.

To answer, as best I can anyway, the 2 questions put forth here..

1 - Yes the Receiver also functions as a Transmitter, the controller couldn't work otherwise. The GC sends commands to the controller to request data when it wants it. The Rumble data, as far as the Wired controller is concerned, is the last bit of the 24 bit command, 1 for on and 0 for off. The Receiver transmits the entire 24 bit command ot the Wavebird, then it replies back with 64 bits of Data.

2 - Most likely the MCU has the ability to do Rumble, but even if it is capable, it would only take removing or just commenting out, a few lines of code from the Firmware that went onto the MCU to disable it completely. It would be like a car being built with everything, but leaving the fuse out for the ignition, so while all of the major parts are in place, you could sit there all day turning the key, but nothing is going to happen.

From my testing and looking around in there, so far it points to there being no Rumble in the Wavebird. There are more than enough 'free' pins on the MCU that could be used for Rumble, 19 free pins in fact, and it only takes 1 to do it, but none of them respond to the Rumble command like the Wired controller does.

It could be the Wavebird needs a different command sent to it for Rumble, and with a 24 bit command sequence, there are 16,777,213 (+2 confirmed that don't work) multiplied by the number of free pins the MCU has for seeing if anything happens on them when the different commands are sent, you'll spend more than a few sleepless nights trying to find out, but I'd highly doubt that it would have it's own Rumble command as the Read command is the same for both the wired and the Wavebird controllers.

This has all been 'off the GC' testing, and the Rumble command from another site tested, but not confirmed yet also. I'm just sending the Read command over and over and toggling the Rumble bit, which works fine on the wired controller as I can make it sit there and Rumble on and off, plus I can still see the button presses register from the Wavebird, so I know there's still communication back and forth there, but there doesn't seem to be any signs of Rumble from the Wavebird MCU.



I still have one more test to do, which is a long shot but I'm still curious, and that's too see if a game sends a different command for Rumble to the Wavebird versus a wired controller when everything is connected up 'normally', as well as confirm that the Rumble command is correct, but that will be a ways off, if I even get around to testing that one out.

[Benni]

GREAT!

Hope you will find something!
THANK YOU FOR THIS WORK!

[tesla246]

Hmmm interesting that the receiver also transmits data. Ive always thought thats the wavebird only sends data to the receiver via the same channel (thats why the light lights up green when any action is done via the controller) you have it turned on. And that nintendo didnt bother with an extra transmitter in the receiver which (rumble) signals the controller could receive via an extra receiver in the wavebird because of added cost and battery simply not worth it only for rumble possibility (in their opinion)

Amyway, isnt it possible to mod the standard controller with some wireles technology?
Altough that should be rather complex as you would also need a battery of some sort.

[|RDC|]

It could be the LED on the Receiver is for Rx only also, but..

I'll need to retract what I said before about the Receiver being a Transmitter as well. I decided last night to wire up the Logic Analyzer between the RF module in the Wavebird and the MCU to see what's going on there, which is something I didn't do before as I was only looking at the data between the GC and Recevier.



Here you can see, kinda as I have it shown over a 2 second time span, so all of the data is squashed up against each other, but when no buttons are pressed, all Data between the RF module and MCU cease, save the Clock (in Green) on the bottom there, which also stops after roughly 30 seconds or so if nothing is pressed.




My initial guess was the polling command was going via the Receiver to the actual Wavebird, like the wired controller does so it knows to send Data, but now it looks like the GC is just polling the Receiver for whatever Data that the Receiver is picking up, so the Receiver appears to be in fact, just a Receiver. I saw no signs of the RF module picking up any kind of Data at all, either last night form testing via my code, or today while using the GameCube. Kinda wish I'd have tried this first before poking around on all of the free MCU pins, but at least I know what most of those are up to now.

So to put the proverbial nail in this Wavebird + Rumble coffin, so to speak and disappointingly so, there is no way the GC can 'tell' the Wavebird to Rumble via the Receiver.

[megalomaniac]

very good work...thanks...
even though we know now that we cannot mod the wavebird for rumble, at least we have the evidence to prove why it cannot be performed...

[MockyLock]

A little post just to say how amazing and astonishing all you guys are for people like me, without knowledge of coding or reverse engineering.
Even RDC, or megalomaniac, emu-kidid or Ashen (for those who came to my mind), are for me like sorcerer or druid able to speak and give life to electronic components

[emu_kidid]

very nice work |RDC|, I could have told you this too as I'd done some investigating in this area a long time ago.

[trevor403]

Note that the rumble is performed by sending a 5V signal to the controller port. If we put a pin in the wavebird receiver to the 5V line and have an extra 2.4ghz transmitter in the transmitter dongle for 5V signal only, as well as a receiver to that device planted in the wavebird, we can emulate the rumble! I can draw up a diagram if anyone doesn't understand what I mean. My method is merely a roundabout because the wavebird doesn't allow us to do with it's board.

[tueidj]

Except as was discussed already, there's no motors in the wavebird and no room for them to be inserted.

[|RDC|]

It's not a matter of room for a motor, that can be done. Nor is it a matter of sending just the 5v signal to the controller. That 5v is power for the Rumble circuit, it's not the signal from the game that turns the motor on/off that makes the Rumble.