Swiss on Wii Modchips?

ViperGC/Qoob/etc
Post Reply
Undead Sega
Posts: 84
Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2015 7:34 pm

Swiss on Wii Modchips?

Post by Undead Sega » Fri Apr 02, 2021 9:20 pm

Hi everyone!

Hope you're still keeping safe during these times!

This crossed my mind recently and did a bit of reading here and there, but I recently discovered that Wii Modchips such as the Wiikey fusion was compatible with the Gamecube (shouldn't be much of a surprise to be honest), it's clone, D2CKey and it's other variants, therefore it has gotten me wondering, is it possible to technically "flash" Swiss onto the modchip?

I know it's been discussed before (and probably tired of me bringing it up now and then) for the Viper and Qoob, but can it be done for these chips and be able boot straight off it without requiring an SD card?? :?:

Stay safe still! ;)
Undead Sega
Posts: 84
Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2015 7:34 pm

Re: Swiss on Wii Modchips?

Post by Undead Sega » Mon Apr 12, 2021 12:29 am

Anyone at all may I ask?

And as silly as this may sound, could any modchip with flashing abilities (like the Modbo for PS2) can be used as a substitute by any chance??
User avatar
emu_kidid
Site Admin
Posts: 4786
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2010 10:06 am
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: Swiss on Wii Modchips?

Post by emu_kidid » Mon Apr 12, 2021 1:52 am

If by "flash" you mean write a boot.iso from Swiss, then yes, probably, assuming that's what those mods used to do in order to show a menu to the user.

If they're not Wiikey Fusion clones then they themselves wouldn't be readable/usable by Swiss and you'd have to use other read methods such as SD cards via the Memory Card slot(s). At this stage, I strongly recommend against using Swiss on a Wii, it's not supported and not really tested either.
Image
User avatar
Papy.G
Posts: 682
Joined: Mon Mar 04, 2019 6:14 am
Location: France, Occitanie
Contact:

Re: Swiss on Wii Modchips?

Post by Papy.G » Mon Apr 12, 2021 7:54 pm

I think the OP was asking about flashing SWISS on the Wii modchip to use on a GC, as there already are some ways to use gamecube games on the Wii that don't need a chip anymore (USBloader GX, Nintendon't, SWISS menu forwarder…).
DMG/MultiFreq OC/EDGB/EZF Jr, AGB/SC miniSD, NTR/NeoMK3, USG/flashme V8/SC miniSD
DOL001(EUR)/RGB/GCPlug/GBP/SD2SP2, RVL 001(EUR)/RGB/CMP/WiiSD

Zelda WW with Tingle Tuner in split screen was what the GC RF modulator was made for! (Video)
User avatar
emu_kidid
Site Admin
Posts: 4786
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2010 10:06 am
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: Swiss on Wii Modchips?

Post by emu_kidid » Mon Apr 12, 2021 10:18 pm

Then in that case, sure. As long as it makes the GameCube protocol happy enough it should work. I know FlatMii and sundriver came close to working but those are super hard to find anyway and if you did you're better off using them on the Wii for fun rather than the GameCube where they may or may not work.
Image
Undead Sega
Posts: 84
Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2015 7:34 pm

Re: Swiss on Wii Modchips?

Post by Undead Sega » Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:49 pm

emu_kidid wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 1:52 am
If by "flash" you mean write a boot.iso from Swiss, then yes, probably, assuming that's what those mods used to do in order to show a menu to the user.

If they're not Wiikey Fusion clones then they themselves wouldn't be readable/usable by Swiss and you'd have to use other read methods such as SD cards via the Memory Card slot(s). At this stage, I strongly recommend against using Swiss on a Wii, it's not supported and not really tested either.
Papy.G wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 7:54 pm
I think the OP was asking about flashing SWISS on the Wii modchip to use on a GC, as there already are some ways to use gamecube games on the Wii that don't need a chip anymore (USBloader GX, Nintendon't, SWISS menu forwarder…).
emu_kidid wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 10:18 pm
Then in that case, sure. As long as it makes the GameCube protocol happy enough it should work. I know FlatMii and sundriver came close to working but those are super hard to find anyway and if you did you're better off using them on the Wii for fun rather than the GameCube where they may or may not work.
I was talking about having it on a Gamecube (but wouldn't mind if it were to work on a Wii console too). However, ideally on a Panasonic Q too.

But yes, but like you said about the FlatMii (which I never heard of before) the WiiKey Fusion and its clones are very hard to come by (believe it's discontinued?) thus I was wondering if it would be done to its predecessors and variants (D2CKey and etc.).

Additionally, could the same be said if it were to be done on a PS2 modchip (ModBo, Matrix Infinity or M-7). I mean, if you are flashing the chip with different software, surely that would then operate whatever code is in it, right?
Please do correct if I am wrong!
User avatar
Papy.G
Posts: 682
Joined: Mon Mar 04, 2019 6:14 am
Location: France, Occitanie
Contact:

Re: Swiss on Wii Modchips?

Post by Papy.G » Thu Apr 15, 2021 5:18 am

A microcontroller, (or cpld) that is at the heart of what we call a "chip", is essentially designed to do whatever you want it to do.
So provided it is powerfully enough for the task (fast, enough memory, needed peripherals and io), as long as you wire it the right way, give it the appropriate code for it to work on the target console, the appropriate payload for the target console, you can virtually use any on any console.
DMG/MultiFreq OC/EDGB/EZF Jr, AGB/SC miniSD, NTR/NeoMK3, USG/flashme V8/SC miniSD
DOL001(EUR)/RGB/GCPlug/GBP/SD2SP2, RVL 001(EUR)/RGB/CMP/WiiSD

Zelda WW with Tingle Tuner in split screen was what the GC RF modulator was made for! (Video)
User avatar
emu_kidid
Site Admin
Posts: 4786
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2010 10:06 am
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: Swiss on Wii Modchips?

Post by emu_kidid » Thu Apr 15, 2021 10:24 pm

You mention D2CKey and the like, those "simpler" mods only inject code into the DVD drive controller via a backdoor to allow backup discs to be read, they're essentially smarter versions of the XenoGC so won't really fit what you're asking for here.
Image
Undead Sega
Posts: 84
Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2015 7:34 pm

Re: Swiss on Wii Modchips?

Post by Undead Sega » Sat Apr 24, 2021 1:17 pm

Papy.G wrote:
Thu Apr 15, 2021 5:18 am
A microcontroller, (or cpld) that is at the heart of what we call a "chip", is essentially designed to do whatever you want it to do.
So provided it is powerfully enough for the task (fast, enough memory, needed peripherals and io), as long as you wire it the right way, give it the appropriate code for it to work on the target console, the appropriate payload for the target console, you can virtually use any on any console.
That is what I kinda thought too, the chips are from the same generation (or close enough) that they could be almost exchangeable.

In terms of the "appropriate code" to work on the target console, will this still need to come into play is Swiss were to be flashed on a non-native modchip?
And of the terminals, how many would you need to use for Swiss if you don't mind me aksing?
emu_kidid wrote:
Thu Apr 15, 2021 10:24 pm
You mention D2CKey and the like, those "simpler" mods only inject code into the DVD drive controller via a backdoor to allow backup discs to be read, they're essentially smarter versions of the XenoGC so won't really fit what you're asking for here.
Yeah, I believe we've had a similar conversation awhile ago in regards to to XenoGC and flashing Swiss onto it. From what I recall it was probable but filesize was the issue (Please correct me if I am wrong on this matter!).

But if that can be the case, these "smarter XenoGC" modchips potentially have bigger flash memory, thus Swiss flashing could be more of a possibility perhaps?
User avatar
Papy.G
Posts: 682
Joined: Mon Mar 04, 2019 6:14 am
Location: France, Occitanie
Contact:

Re: Swiss on Wii Modchips?

Post by Papy.G » Sun Apr 25, 2021 1:32 pm

SWISS is growing bigger with added functionnalities, and the target memory size may not be enough one day, even if you aim for a little extra space for the current version's size, and getting more memory on a chip (or adding extra on board) adds both useless complexity and cost.

Now we have access to 3 native SD compatible ports on most GCs, the way would be to have a chip that embeds and injects minimal code for finding and loading SWISS off any of the current SD file systems (from SD2SP2 if present, then PortB SD Gecko), with update possibility for further ones.

Some of the current and past chips do have enough memory to do almost that, by loading first a forwarder off a GC memcard (no need for file system support as it's already in the GC's ROM). The code has just not be written for most of these to eventually achieve that.
DMG/MultiFreq OC/EDGB/EZF Jr, AGB/SC miniSD, NTR/NeoMK3, USG/flashme V8/SC miniSD
DOL001(EUR)/RGB/GCPlug/GBP/SD2SP2, RVL 001(EUR)/RGB/CMP/WiiSD

Zelda WW with Tingle Tuner in split screen was what the GC RF modulator was made for! (Video)
Undead Sega
Posts: 84
Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2015 7:34 pm

Re: Swiss on Wii Modchips?

Post by Undead Sega » Mon Apr 26, 2021 1:44 am

If you say current and past chips to have the sufficient memory to hold the ever growing Swiss, what would you say is the most ideal chip to do so (to run on a Gamecube)?
Would you say only modchips made for the Gamecube and Wii would work without any issues? Specifically one that would boot Swiss from the modchip and not requiring a disk or SD/memory card for booting.

Also, I came across the Infectus modchip; Infectus 2 (multiplatform) and Infectus Argon (Wii only).
This was a really interesting prospect, it's still available and it's made for most systems. Could this possibly be a good candidate by any chance?
Undead Sega
Posts: 84
Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2015 7:34 pm

Re: Swiss on Wii Modchips?

Post by Undead Sega » Sun May 02, 2021 2:25 am

In case if anyone is wondering, this is the WiiKey 2 modchip:

Image

I'm aware it's not a WiiKey Fusion, but can the same still be done to this?

Although you may have described it as a "smarter" versions of XenoGC (having the ability to flash Swiss as well), they potentially have larger memory space and still designed for a similar system.

And this is the somewhat less talked about Infectus modchip:

Image

Either version of this chip can work for the Wii and it has a USB programmer (or the ability) to easily flash to chip itself.

I mean, surely this too would make a good candidate, wouldn't it? :?:
Attachments
06wqd506h7u61.jpg
(1.01 MiB) Not downloaded yet
10215882-wiikey-2.jpg
(26.55 KiB) Not downloaded yet
User avatar
Papy.G
Posts: 682
Joined: Mon Mar 04, 2019 6:14 am
Location: France, Occitanie
Contact:

Re: Swiss on Wii Modchips?

Post by Papy.G » Sun May 02, 2021 9:18 am

Because of the limited lifespan in terms of re-writing of all those devices (embedded flash memory in the µCs as well as external) the better way for long-term use is to only once write code on them, and relying on memcards/SD cards for ease of updating and change when defective.

It is pointless to want to boot SWISS straight from a chip, while you will surely be using SD cards for ISOs anyways.

The Wii can boot SWISS alone, so there will probably not be any developpement around its chips anymore.

In terms of size, you have three options, from smaller to bigger:
memcard code forwarder (as contained in the save exploits), probably less than 24kB.
SD card code forwarder (as contained in the DoLaunchers, boot.gci), currently more than 128kB with SD2SP2 and ExFat support.
SWISS.dol, almost 3MB uncompressed.

The infectus modchip you mention shows 512kB of flash memory, it's written on the chip, but how much would be really available for the GC-specific code?
Undead Sega wrote:
Mon Apr 26, 2021 1:44 am
…you say current and past chips to have the sufficient memory to hold the ever growing Swiss…
That's misunderstanding what I wrote. :P
What I say was possible at last is loading the minimal code needed to find and load Boot.GCI on one of the memcards.

We have to start from scratch, writing by hand straight in machine code as the compilers just generate useless crap, with the code for finding Boot.gci on slotA memcard, and loading it. That's the smaller, smarter we can do, to begin with.
DMG/MultiFreq OC/EDGB/EZF Jr, AGB/SC miniSD, NTR/NeoMK3, USG/flashme V8/SC miniSD
DOL001(EUR)/RGB/GCPlug/GBP/SD2SP2, RVL 001(EUR)/RGB/CMP/WiiSD

Zelda WW with Tingle Tuner in split screen was what the GC RF modulator was made for! (Video)
Undead Sega
Posts: 84
Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2015 7:34 pm

Re: Swiss on Wii Modchips?

Post by Undead Sega » Sun May 02, 2021 3:19 pm

Papy.G wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 9:18 am
Because of the limited lifespan in terms of re-writing of all those devices (embedded flash memory in the µCs as well as external) the better way for long-term use is to only once write code on them, and relying on memcards/SD cards for ease of updating and change when defective.

It is pointless to want to boot SWISS straight from a chip, while you will surely be using SD cards for ISOs anyways.
Well there was a gap between Swiss 0.4 and 0.5, thus there wouldn't be much flashing needed (only for the nightly builds would be a concern, however the lifespan of these ICs should be sufficient for the average if not most users).

And I do not think it is pointless to have it boot straight from the chip, it would eradicate the usage of other peripherals (memory cards/SD cards, adapters etc.). The intention is to try and have it all inclusive in one package :)
The Wii can boot SWISS alone, so there will probably not be any developpement around its chips anymore.
I understand, however I am referring all of this to work on a Gamecube and Panasonic Q.
In terms of size, you have three options, from smaller to bigger:
memcard code forwarder (as contained in the save exploits), probably less than 24kB.
SD card code forwarder (as contained in the DoLaunchers, boot.gci), currently more than 128kB with SD2SP2 and ExFat support.
SWISS.dol, almost 3MB uncompressed.
So I'm guessing an appropriate modchip would have to have more than 3MB internal flash memory. Probably a modchip with an IC with 128Mbit would suffice and be future proof, right? :D
The infectus modchip you mention shows 512kB of flash memory, it's written on the chip, but how much would be really available for the GC-specific code?
Yeah, i guess that's not enough, but certainly more than some of the other modchips :lol:

However the Wiikey 2 has 8Mbit flash memory, maybe this can be replaced?
Undead Sega wrote:
Mon Apr 26, 2021 1:44 am
…you say current and past chips to have the sufficient memory to hold the ever growing Swiss…
That's misunderstanding what I wrote. :P
What I say was possible at last is loading the minimal code needed to find and load Boot.GCI on one of the memcards.

We have to start from scratch, writing by hand straight in machine code as the compilers just generate useless crap, with the code for finding Boot.gci on slotA memcard, and loading it. That's the smaller, smarter we can do, to begin with.
I personally like to try and find a way to bring all of this into a modchip itself. Surely there has to be a way.
Post Reply