Plug and play drive replacement adapter Idea

[kel01]

I've tried a PAL disc on my NTSC cube with WODE and a Xeno installed now and the video mode worked correctly (576i 50hz).

I also wrote a bit about the video mode issue with imports at the bottom of this post when I had a PAL motherboard with the WODE:

viewtopic.php?p=10815&sid=901e2408a3a86 ... 446#p10815

Not sure if this matches with your results mega. What do you think?

[Benni]

I have a PAL GC with a Qoob Pro and Laser Tweak.

I have Puzzle Mario or Doctor Mario or something like that.
I think ist is NTSC cause everything written in the Game is in Chinese Symbols...

So, QOOB can play NTSC on PAL - BUT:

Can a PAL Cube with WODE can play NTSC?
and can a NTSC Board with WODE play PAL?

AND - the BIG QUESTION:
WHICH is Better, which looks better?
NTSC has 60 Hz or?
BUT Pal has more Video memory or am i wrong?
(look at the Panasonic Q - it is ONLY available with NTSC but it can be modified to PAL - there is da flash Disk from Panasonic to flash it to PAL but you need to solder more Video RAM for that...)

THX

[kel01]

AND - the BIG QUESTION:
WHICH is Better, which looks better?
NTSC has 60 Hz or?

Although if optimized properly the PAL version of a game with a slightly higher resolution should be no worse than the NTSC version, I personally think that NTSC wins by a nose because 60fps is smoother than 50fps even if it would be hard to notice to be honest.

[megalomaniac]

I've tried a PAL disc on my NTSC cube with WODE and a Xeno installed now and the video mode worked correctly (576i 50hz).

I also wrote a bit about the video mode issue with imports at the bottom of this post when I had a PAL motherboard with the WODE:

viewtopic.php?p=10815&sid=901e2408a3a86 ... 446#p10815

Not sure if this matches with your results mega. What do you think?

ok...your test results match up...
i think...


this is what might be going on and this is why i think your info matches:
1. when you did that test, you first used eternal darkness backup...
wode requires a xeno to play backups with a GC drive...

2. when you got the original, you still had a xeno connected...

3. as i wrote in my test results:

Xeno drive code breaks Wode ability to force import PAL title to NTSC display....

for me:
Eternal Darkness ( NTSC ) displays as NTSC with xeno
Doshin the Giant ( PAL ) displays as PAL with a xeno
Doshin the Giant ( PAL ) displays as NTSC with no xeno

for you:
Eternal Darkness ( NTSC ) displayed as PAL no xeno
Eternal Darkness ( NTSC ) displayed as NTSC with xeno
Unknown title ( PAL ) displayed as ( PAL ) with xeno



so these results results match because Wode seems to ask the host console for its native region to allow forcing video of the title to the consoles region...
Xeno seems to affect Wode's ability to force video display...it seems to confuse Wode on which video mode to display and therefore it will default to the titles video mode...



i might be incorrect with the following information below until more data can analyzed:

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NTSC gamecube + NTSC TV

Wode ONLY
NTSC game titles will display in NTSC
PAL game titles with display in NTSC

Wode + xeno 
NTSC game titles will display in NTSC
PAL game titles with display in PAL   

* use xeno forced video mode to change PAL to NTSC
  or add xeno disable switch

Code: Select all

NTSC gamecube + PAL TV

Wode ONLY
NTSC game titles will display in NTSC 
PAL game titles with display in NTSC

Wode + xeno 
NTSC game titles will display in NTSC 
PAL game titles with display in PAL   

* Can your PAL TV handle NTSC 480/60hz ??

Code: Select all

PAL gamecube + PAL TV

Wode ONLY
NTSC game titles will display in PAL 
PAL game titles with display in PAL 

Wode + xeno 
NTSC game titles will display in NTSC 
PAL game titles with display in PAL   


* Can your PAL TV handle NTSC 480/60hz ??
* NTSC titles may not look correct in forced PAL video

[megalomaniac]

AND - the BIG QUESTION:
WHICH is Better, which looks better?
NTSC has 60 Hz or?

Although if optimized properly the PAL version of a game with a slightly higher resolution should be no worse than the NTSC version, I personally think that NTSC wins by a nose because 60fps is smoother than 50fps even if it would be hard to notice to be honest.

i would think playing the title in its native 576 or 480 resolution would be the best

[kel01]

AND - the BIG QUESTION:
WHICH is Better, which looks better?
NTSC has 60 Hz or?

Although if optimized properly the PAL version of a game with a slightly higher resolution should be no worse than the NTSC version, I personally think that NTSC wins by a nose because 60fps is smoother than 50fps even if it would be hard to notice to be honest.

i would think playing the title in its native 576 or 480 resolution would be the best

Oh, my mistake. I thought that he was asking a general question on the age old debate of PAL vs NTSC hence my answer. But yes I agree, regarding the WODE video mode issue playing the title in it's native resolution would be the best.

[kel01]

I've tried a PAL disc on my NTSC cube with WODE and a Xeno installed now and the video mode worked correctly (576i 50hz).

I also wrote a bit about the video mode issue with imports at the bottom of this post when I had a PAL motherboard with the WODE:

viewtopic.php?p=10815&sid=901e2408a3a86 ... 446#p10815

Not sure if this matches with your results mega. What do you think?

ok...your test results match up...
i think...


this is what might be going on and this is why i think your info matches:
1. when you did that test, you first used eternal darkness backup...
wode requires a xeno to play backups with a GC drive...

2. when you got the original, you still had a xeno connected...

3. as i wrote in my test results:

Xeno drive code breaks Wode ability to force import PAL title to NTSC display....

for me:
Eternal Darkness ( NTSC ) displays as NTSC with xeno
Doshin the Giant ( PAL ) displays as PAL with a xeno
Doshin the Giant ( PAL ) displays as NTSC with no xeno

for you:
Eternal Darkness ( NTSC ) displayed as PAL no xeno
Eternal Darkness ( NTSC ) displayed as NTSC with xeno
Unknown title ( PAL ) displayed as ( PAL ) with xeno



so these results results match because Wode seems to ask the host console for its native region to allow forcing video of the title to the consoles region...
Xeno seems to affect Wode's ability to force video display...it seems to confuse Wode on which video mode to display and therefore it will default to the titles video mode...



i might be incorrect with the following information below until more data can analyzed:

Code: Select all

NTSC gamecube + NTSC TV

Wode ONLY
NTSC game titles will display in NTSC
PAL game titles with display in NTSC

Wode + xeno 
NTSC game titles will display in NTSC
PAL game titles with display in PAL   

* use xeno forced video mode to change PAL to NTSC
  or add xeno disable switch

Code: Select all

NTSC gamecube + PAL TV

Wode ONLY
NTSC game titles will display in NTSC 
PAL game titles with display in NTSC

Wode + xeno 
NTSC game titles will display in NTSC 
PAL game titles with display in PAL   

* Can your PAL TV handle NTSC 480/60hz ??

Code: Select all

PAL gamecube + PAL TV

Wode ONLY
NTSC game titles will display in PAL 
PAL game titles with display in PAL 

Wode + xeno 
NTSC game titles will display in NTSC 
PAL game titles with display in PAL   


* Can your PAL TV handle NTSC 480/60hz ??
* NTSC titles may not look correct in forced PAL video

All those results look spot on to me. When wrote in a clear way like that it becomes a lot less confusing.

Regarding PAL TVs. Most decent TVs over here have been able to handle 480/60hz for years, maybe late 90's for expensive TVs and early 2000's for smaller less expensive ones and now since LCD and plasma there probably aren't many sets that can't. Many don't accept NTSC color over composite though.

By the way the unknown title was Resident evil. sorry, forgot to mention it in my previous post.

[megalomaniac]

maybe wode + xeno offers the best of both for PAL TV...assuming you want to play a NTSC title in NTSC

for NTSC TV, Wode + Xeno requires "xeno video forcing" or a xeno diable switch...


benni, there is your answer above....

[Benni]

??

So a PAL Cube and WODE is better then a NTSC with WODE?
But i have PAL and NTSC games in Original and iso laying around...

I can Use the DVD Drive as well with this Adapter. and to boot from Disk i have to solder a modchip.
And the easiest way is a Xeno instead of a Qoob?

[megalomaniac]

benni, there is not a better setup...it all depends what you want to accomplish...
lets try this a different way...

Code: Select all

what TV type will you use? NTSC or PAL
IF PAL, can it handle NTSC signal? yes or no

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will you be using more than 1 TV? yes or no
what type are the other TVs? NTSC or PAL?
IF PAL, can it handle NTSC signal? yes or no

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IF you have a PAL TV, can it display 576p? yes or no
IF you have a PAL TV, can it display 480p? yes or no
IF you have an NTSC TV, can it display 480p? yes or no

Code: Select all

When playing PAL titles, do you want to display PAL video? yes or no
When playing PAL titles, do you want to display PAL Progressive video? yes or no
When playing PAL titles, do you want to display NTSC video? yes or no
When playing PAL titles, do you want to display NTSC progressive video? yes or no

Code: Select all

When playing NTSC titles, do you want to display NTSC video? yes or no
When playing NTSC titles, do you want to display NTSC Progressive video? yes or no
When playing NTSC titles, do you want to display PAL video? yes or no
When playing NTSC titles, do you want to display PAL Progressive video? yes or no

[Benni]

I´m from Germany. So we have PAL - but i think every FLATSCREEN can Handle NTSC Signals - i think mine can cause my old XBOX is set to NTSC to use HD with the original M$ YUV Cable - and i´m getting a picture...

More than 1 TV? Yes, to test i use my Monitor which is also a TV - i also made the XBOX Setup there - so i think it also can handle NTSC Signals...

i think both TV´s can handle those Signals cause the are FULL HD certified and - HA, my SAT Receiver boots up with 576i then changes to 1080p.
So YES, the main TV can handle this - my WII also used 480p via YUV

NTSC TV there is none but both can show NTSC Signals.

Progressive Video? Does it mean YOUR Component Adapter? When this is progressive then YES
So this is my Question - WHAT is better?
Pal on PAl and NTSC on PAL
OR
NTSC on NTSC and PAL on NTSC?

Like i told you before Games in every "Systems" are here but for NOW i only have PAL Cubes!
And this is why i asked you a few times to get an external Component Adapter, too.
The internal will be fpr my "OWN" GC (setup with Wode and some more stuff - when i know which type it will be (NTSC/PAL))

Hope you understand now what i want...

THANK´S for your HELP

[megalomaniac]

benni, i took the time to write those questions, at least take the time to answer them all...
there is a reason why they must ALL be answered...
...and i have even provided two answers next to each question for you to choose from: yes / no...or....ntsc / pal

was it really too much to ask for you to answer those questions???
this is why you cannot get the answer you want because you do not provide the necessary info to provide you with any answer...

So this is my Question - WHAT is better?
Pal on PAl and NTSC on PAL
OR
NTSC on NTSC and PAL on NTSC?

invalid question


Benni, you are asking for an opinion, especially when it comes to NTSC...
NTSC = Never The Same Color
no two NTSC tv brands look the same...display is different, brightness is different, color is different, clarity and sharpness is different...then multiply this between the composite or component...and multiply again between 480i and 480p...
then you also have to consider any gameplay and audio slowdowns for a 60hz game forced down to play @ 50hz...
then you also have to consider any gameplay and audio speedups for a 50hz game forced up to play @ 60hz...
these are only a few questions to consider....



...unfortunately for you, it sounds like the only way for you to determine which setup will be the most ideal for you is to have a NTSC & PAL GC and perform your own tests..

[Benni]

??
I have answered all of your questions!

I cannot take a pen and do markings on my TV - THESE you can´t see....

My TV´s can both: PAL and NTSC.
So i don´t care if there is different colour or different brightness. This is also with PAL.
So these is also not a GC Problem this is a TV Problem and every one wants it different

[megalomaniac]

benni, i think your missing the point to my request that you answer every single question...
the reason is because since you do not fully understand the effects of wode on a PAL or NTSC gamecube, the answers will allow an understanding of what you are trying to accomplish...

decision is yours and you only have a few choices:
1. you can answer the question and receive a recommendation to fit your needs...
2. you can read all the information again and again till you learn for yourself...
3. you can do nothing and keep wondering...
4. you can use dolphin emulator and forget about ntsc/pal/composite/component/modchips/consoles

[Benni]

Code: Select all

what TV type will you use? PAL
IF PAL, can it handle NTSC signal? yes

Code: Select all

will you be using more than 1 TV? yes 
what type are the other TVs? PAL?
IF PAL, can it handle NTSC signal? yes

Code: Select all

IF you have a PAL TV, can it display 576p? yes
IF you have a PAL TV, can it display 480p? yes 
IF you have an NTSC TV, can it display 480p? yes or no

Code: Select all

When playing PAL titles, do you want to display PAL video? Don´t know - that´s one of my Questions.. Does it look better?
When playing PAL titles, do you want to display PAL Progressive video? yes (If progressiv is when i´m using your component Adapter)
When playing PAL titles, do you want to display NTSC video? Don´t know - that´s one of my Questions.. Does it look better? 
When playing PAL titles, do you want to display NTSC progressive video? yes 

Code: Select all

When playing NTSC titles, do you want to display NTSC video? Don´t know - that´s one of my Questions.. Does it look better?
When playing NTSC titles, do you want to display NTSC Progressive video? yes 
When playing NTSC titles, do you want to display PAL video? Don´t know - that´s one of my Questions.. Does it look better?
When playing NTSC titles, do you want to display PAL Progressive video? yes

[megalomaniac]

ok benni....thanks for answering...

based on your answers it appears you need a setup that will allow you full control of the video display mode....
unfortunately, there is no way to allow you this type of control without using swiss....
maybe you should consider a WKF with swiss on flash too allow you to control the display type....
on the latest versions of swiss, the iso is not physically patched...a supporting patch is created which will keep your preferred settings for that iso....(i think)



if anything, you can currently run your own test with swiss via SD gecko to determine if you prefer NTSC or PAL video mode on your particular display...only you can make the determination if you like NTSC or PAL better...
just keep in mind, the best video mode to choose for titles is its native video mode...

[Benni]

Thats what i want to hear...

I don´t want a WKF...
I prefer the WODE.

SD Gecko is laying around - somewhere.

To start Swiss from SDGecko a Modchip is neede?
So a what should i use to use with my WODE?

[megalomaniac]

Thats what i want to hear...

I don´t want a WKF...
I prefer the WODE.

SD Gecko is laying around - somewhere.

To start Swiss from SDGecko a Modchip is neede?
So a what should i use to use with my WODE?

to start swiss, you can use sdml, xeno, wode, wkf, qoob, viper, etc etc


dont worry about how wode will fit into your situation....
first figure out what you like better....NTSC or PAL as default video mode....
then we can figure out how wode will fit in based on which video mode you think looks better....

[Benni]

This is not what i wanted to hear...

Cause i want to do the soldering job only once - in the best Cube...(Pal or NTSC)

[megalomaniac]

benni, this may not be what you want to hear, but if you dont know what you want, then you have to figure everything out on your own...
no one can spoon feed you with an answer when you have no idea what you want...


you keep asking which video mode is better, NTSC or PAL
as ive said before, its an opinion as to which mode is better...


first figure out what video mode looks the best FOR YOU...then you will be able to determine which type of console you want with which modchip configuration(s)...

i wish you the best of luck during your quest for determining which video mode you think looks better....
if you have any other questions, re-read the last 5 (or 20) pages of this thread...
if you still confused, re-read everything again

[Diminuendo]

If you REALLY don't have access to Wikipedia here is a quick guide:

PAL; higher resolution, lower framerate
NTSC; lower resolution, higher framerate

Neither is better or worse, they are DIFFERENT. There is no such thing as "the best gamecube." Now, if you aren't using a digital component cable then the PAL console can get the better analog video signal from the 2.

Now personally I would use NTSC if your flatscreen has a decent upscaler built in, but if yours is one that just uses nearest neighbor scaling then PAL is probably better.

The stupid thing is IT DOESN'T MATTER which console you use when Swiss can force the consoles non-native video mode. (Which will work with a Wiikey, Wode or many other setups if you would just pull your finger out of your arse for long enough to find the information yourself (misspelled it, still first result))

If I have used any terminology you don't understand here is a good place to find the information you need.

[megalomaniac]

i dont know if this is a new discovery but it wasnt in the WKF instruction manual...
(if one exists)...



it appears WKF has video region forcing....( i have no DVD drive connected right now )
1. select an out of region title from the WKF WBFS MENU
2. when the GC reboots, hold either X or Y till title starts and video if forced
3. if video is not forced, try the other button
4. if everything works, test the title to confirm forced compatibility
5. test another title


...currently my WKF has default settings: ON ON ON ON ON
...ill test other configurations later after the epoxy dries



here is my PAL title on NTSC console, both results are the same for composite and component
no 480p / 576p since the title itself does not support it...


DEFAULT PAL VIDEO:




FORCED NTSC VIDEO:










Edit:
Just had a thought: Luigi Mansion (PAL) on NTSC GC....better late than never??

[Ashen]

Tried this today with my test setup. No go on video forcing in luigis mansion. I then tried doshin the giant. With doshin, my setup boots directly into 60hz mode, i'm assuming this because colors are displayed correctly. The image is still cropped though on ntsc tv. Holding buttons in during boot made no difference. Setting my switches to all on results in disc cannot be read after the gc reboots. :/

[megalomaniac]

grrrr...

maybe differences in WKF firmware version???
ill run some more tests...

[Ashen]

Maybe, my Wiikey was on 1.5, but I can test others also. I had limited time to test this morning. I'll get back with more results if anything changes.